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Xfce 4.12 Planned For March, GTK3 Still Uncertain

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  • #16
    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
    Screw them, I already ported over half their core desktop apps to GTK3 over a year ago. It took barely two evenings of coding. The git branches are still available, and they are well aware of them. They're just sticking their heads in the sand, not being cautious engineers.
    If it took you just a few evenings of coding to get half their core over to Gtk3, what is the cause of the delay?? Are they just being lazy? Is there no manpower? No interest? It seems most users are interested.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
      I can't find any technical justification for rushing like lemmings to GTK+ 3. Few app's will benefit.
      The LTS versions of the most popular distro's will be required to support GTK+ 2 for years to come.

      LXDE dev's are not in a hurry : http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp...de.pcmanfm/239
      XFCE dev's are not in a hurry : http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4...ay/029843.html
      Chromium still on GTK+ 2 for a long time : http://code.google.com/p/chromium/is...etail?id=79722

      So apart from faddism I'm at a loss to justify this heavy breathing & sweating about porting like crazy to a less mature, less memory efficient toolkit.
      Olease explain?
      Well, there are panel plugins. XFCE hasn't a lot of good plugins itself, most of the good ones are from gnome. Since gnome 2 series is already dropped, I'm pretty sure it's plugins are unmaintained.
      I'm in a dilemma about supporting migration or sticking to GTK2, since I want Wayland and updated plugins, but I'm all for performance and memory efficiency too, and GTK3 doesn't seem to care about that a lot.

      Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
      Those numbers don't even necessarily mean worse performance. Slightly higher memory usage != slower performance unless you have a particularly low memory machine.
      IIRC, XFCE is targeted to low resources computers. That means switching to a more resource hungry lib is usually a bad choice.

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      • #18
        It would be interesting if they just ported everything to Qt5 instead Although it's highly unlikely.

        Well, they are porting things to GTK3, but at a slower pace. No need to rush, really, it's better to get everything done correctly instead of just porting as soon as possible.

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        • #19
          Sticking with Gtk2 is the correct decision. I thought Gtk3 had technical reasons to be made, but it turns out it’s just much worse than Gtk2 on every front… 50% more memory usage is not “slightly more”… Also it’s pretty hard to find any dark Gtk3 theme at this point.
          Last edited by stqn; 09-10-2012, 02:52 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gururise View Post
            They really need to start supporting the newer technologies (GTK3, Gnome 3 Panel + Unity Indicators), otherwise XFCE will fall to the wayside as an alternative desktop.
            No, they don't actually...
            There is no pressing need to urgently dump mature, stable, memory efficent design and run with our pants down to the, apparently, one man project of GTK+ 3. The dev himself is saying it should be scrapped and work started on GTK + 4 because its so bad..

            Originally posted by gururise View Post
            Whether they like it or not, most new development will occur on Gtk3, including Wayland. By sticking with an older, undeveloped toolkit, they are only hurting themselves and their users.
            Again, Wayland is an emerging long term replacement for the X Window system and as such will someday be very nice when its finished... but there is no pressing need to run to this right this very minute for the majority of desktop users.

            I suspect people pushing this "rush rush" line are the diminishing breed of hard core desktop gamers or people with version number envy.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
              I'm all for performance and memory efficiency too, and GTK3 doesn't seem to care about that a lot.
              Agreed.

              Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
              IIRC, XFCE is targeted to low resources computers. That means switching to a more resource hungry lib is usually a bad choice.
              There's that, and also many of us who are refugees from Microsoft got thoroughly sick of the attitude that profligate use of system resources was quite normal.. 'just throw hardware at the problem'... uh uh, no way baby, give me fast/lean/stable choices!

              On my machines I use SolusOS (Debian+Mate) & Xubuntu (Ubuntu+Xfce). Both are fast to boot & snappy to use with small memory footprints whilst still retaining all the GUI funtionality that you could need. Even on my Core i5 machine the Gnome3 & Unity Shells are noticeably slower to boot and more memory hungry.. to what end?? The ergonomics of these GTK+ 3 shells are pretty awful. I mean if you really must have type to find then just install Cardapio or Synapse.. problem solved you can feel leet..

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stqn View Post
                Sticking with Gtk2 is the correct decision. I thought Gtk3 had technical reasons to be made, but it turns out it’s just much worse than Gtk2 on every front… 50% more memory usage is not “slightly more”… Also it’s pretty hard to find any dark Gtk3 theme at this point.
                Its certainly not "worse on every front". Exaggerated more please. GTK3 has a lot of code/api cleanup and some good improvements (such as much better/easier themeing)

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                • #23
                  Gtk3 also has a hidden dep on XCB - it will crash on a normal X setup, despite having been compiled without xcb. A bug is open, but with no advances.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                    Its certainly not "worse on every front". Exaggerated more please. GTK3 has a lot of code/api cleanup and some good improvements (such as much better/easier themeing)
                    Sorry, I haven’t checked myself (except for the lack of themes), I based this remark on the comments I read here: uses more memory, slower, lower usability (? color chooser comment), a one man project whose author thinks it needs to be redone, and I thought I read somewhere that the code/API was actually worse but I can’t find it anymore. Also the new themeing system might be “better” but we had/have plenty of great Gtk2 themes that worked very well and now we have 1) a lack of Gtk3 themes, 2) different looks for Gtk2 and Gtk3 apps, 3) need to learn a new system when the old one did the job nicely…

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by stqn View Post
                      Sorry, I haven’t checked myself (except for the lack of themes), I based this remark on the comments I read here: uses more memory, slower, lower usability (? color chooser comment), a one man project whose author thinks it needs to be redone, and I thought I read somewhere that the code/API was actually worse but I can’t find it anymore. Also the new themeing system might be “better” but we had/have plenty of great Gtk2 themes that worked very well and now we have 1) a lack of Gtk3 themes, 2) different looks for Gtk2 and Gtk3 apps, 3) need to learn a new system when the old one did the job nicely…
                      'worse usability' based on what? Some dude that doesn't like gnome 3's color picker? There's no reason someone couldn't make a better color picker in gtk3.

                      Remember gnome 3 and gtk3 are not the same thing, gtk3 is the toolkit it uses.

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                      • #26
                        I know this is an old thread, but... are there any news?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wargames View Post
                          I know this is an old thread, but... are there any news?
                          they're porting it to GDK3+

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