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Debian Now Defaults To Xfce Desktop

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  • #46
    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
    What have filesearch utils to do with session saving?
    He/she was responding to the second part of the quote:
    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
    But both have nothing to search on true desktop machine


    • #47
      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
      What have filesearch utils to do with session saving?

      I'm not talking here about extremely weird approach to adding a link on desktop or taskbar, about lack of LXPanel plugins and the latter inability to work correctly as vertical panel, about actually LXDE website gone MIA.
      The current problems with XFCE are: thunar unable to handle properties of multiple objects and the panel is still very primitive, compared to GNOME2/3 or KDE3/4. This still makes XFCE an under-developed desktop, but it can be used by newbies.
      I was answering the "both have nothing to search on true desktop machine" part.

      I'm using a vertical panel in XFCE just fine, this is buggy in gnome2, and they never cared to fix it. Thunar could use some polish but nothing stops you from using nautilus or anything else. Also i don't see anything wrong with the panels; have yet to try 4.10.

      I was talking from an XFCE perspective which is the topic of discussion here.
      Last edited by Artemis3; 08-11-2012, 03:11 AM.


      • #48
        Originally posted by Artemis3 View Post
        Think of it. You are a regular user, say at the workplace, used to work with gnome2. You don't care about the desktop much, you just come and sit to work with a web browser and office suit (openoffice). Wheezy becomes stable and IT upgrades all machines from squeeze.

        Which choice hurts users more when they go to work next day? Gnome3 or XFCE? Fitting the CD might be compelling enough, but there is a strong usability reason to switch from gnome2 to xfce.

        Gnome developers (the few that remain) have already said they are not catering to the needs of former gnome2 users. For them, Gnome3 has nothing to do with gnome2 and are not targeting their former users (as silly as that sounds). It would have made much more sense to rename the project entirely to avoid confusion.

        Thus, ignoring gnome3 idiocy, what is left for the IT deployer? You need to switch to the closest thing, that would be either xfce, mate or, baring the performance of running components from gnome3, cinnamon/nemo/mdm & friends.

        For a distro which doesn't want to alienate its user base (unlike the remaining gnome devs), this was the logical choice.

        This is one beauty of the free/open source ecosystem. When a core dev makes an absurd choice, the project forks and/or people switch to alternatives. Remember Xfree86? Or even libreoffice vs openoffice?. Distros are collection of packages for the convenience of users, that is why they switch default packages from time to time.

        Quoted in full for the HIGHLY relevant and true words it holds. Most average users and people in a company environment are NOT looking for bleeding edge and relearning from scratch how to integrate with their desktop, but to get on with REGULAR WORK. XFCE is a very sane default that wont completely wreck havoc at IT supportlines the weeks after a company updates to a new version of the distro. The technical experiment Gnome3 should be the consious choise for those wanting to play with new technology, not something forced down the throat of everyone.
        Last edited by Stedevil; 08-11-2012, 04:19 AM.


        • #49
          Originally posted by Artemis3 View Post
          I'm using a vertical panel in XFCE just fine, this is buggy in gnome2, and they never cared to fix it. Thunar could use some polish but nothing stops you from using nautilus or anything else. Also i don't see anything wrong with the panels; have yet to try 4.10.
          Haha, I see we have very common reasons fo using XFCE. In fact the hugely buggy and desktop unfriendly re-implementation of vertical panels like 2-3(?) years ago, and the insane developer motivations for not fixing it (back to how it worked before, even as an optional user controlled setting) is exactly what promted me to litterally switch from Gnome2 to XFCE. Already back then it was clear to me that the gnome movement was clearly directed towards the wrong goal ("portrait" tablets screens which you can turn, not "landscape" desktop screens standing statical on the desktop). And as you rightly point out, those that still think Thunar is a bit lacking can easily use Nautilus as a dropin replacement. I still use Nautilus from time to time, but Thunar has become a lot better the last few years and certainly is at a good everyday usage level nowdays.


          • #50
            a tiny thing bugs me in XFCE : if you hit ctrl-esc nothing happens, whereas on LXDE it will bring the start menu - just like it does under windows, though they could suppor the win key as well.

            ah, I've worked out there's alt-f1 but it's a bad shortcut. also I've checked the panel management (in a VM), it doesn't seem better than LXDE. same concept of a control window when you manage panel items in a list.
            the file manager is something to replace, too. in all there's quite some work if I want to feel at home.
            that said it's very decent and xfce on debian just works, but to me, it's Pepsi. what you drink when they don't have Coke.

            I don't intend to troll and please have a sense of humour : xfce has the footprint of mate and the features of lxde
            I use lxde if I want a lightweight desktop (i.e. don't have to wait for several seconds when launching a file manager, more free memory), I use mate if I way something more powerful (drag'n'drop of panels and shortcuts, applets)

            stay away from nautilus : mixing gnome 3 components and accessories with an lxde/xfce desktop will be less pleasant. with linux mint 12 I ended up with a mix of lxde and gnome 3. that makes the system slower and heavy (you can decide to ignore all of this if you have a fast hard drive or especially an SSD)

            if you want to replace thunar there's pcmanfm, or you can use mate tools (caja file manager, mate-terminal, atril etc.)
            I'm using lxde with mate-terminal for now.


            • #51
              Originally posted by moonlite View Post
              How i wish there were some other, less opiniated, news site covering what phoronix covers. I'm only a few gnome bashing posts from unsubscribing.
              Personally, I really like GNOME Shell. IMO it's the second best DE after Plasma Desktop but I feel not sorry for the shitstorm the GNOME people have to endure now because they are exactly the people who fueled the KDE 4.0 shitstorm.
              They are the ones who made (and possibly still make) fun that KDE technology consists of “countless wrappers”, yet those “countless wrappers” allow for totally different user experiences under the same technological roof. Plasma Desktop uses exactly the same technology as Plasma Active: No compromise between traditional desktop GUI and tablet GUI needed.

              Again: I like GS but if the GNOME devs where more open adopting KDE ideas, a traditional DE based on GNOME tech wouldn't need a fork like Cinnamon. (GS Extensions are a step in the right direction but IMO not far enough in modularity

              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              @Hamish Wilson
              Last time I tried XFCE, it offered the worst customization of any DE I've tried, however, that was maybe 3 years ago, so I'm sure it has significantly improved since.
              Xfce only has a minor release once a year and those are not only minor in version number but in actual new features. Don't expect too much.

              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              Isn't GNOME 3 designed by Red Hat? Like I thought RH was exactly the reason why GNOME is starting to fail.
              GNOME Shell is mostly a Red Hat product, not GNOME 3 in general and I really do not see GNOME actually failing. Sure, GNOME lost some conservative users, but OTOH I've seen users who in the past used GNOME just because it was part of Ubuntu and didn't give it a thought but after Unity they make the conscious decision to replace Unity with GNOME Shell.


              • #52
                You all know Gnome3 has failed horribly for people that want to do anything but browse for covers in iTunes. I have been using Linux since when men were men and wrote their own device drivers (1994, Linux 1.x, Slackware floppy series) and I do believe the Linux desktop currently is in crisis. A serious crisis.

                The only users that could possibly like Gnome3 are the users that will never use Linux but are perfectly happy with Windows 7 or OSX. I do not believe trying to cater to beginners is what Linux need to do. It's a tool for more advanced users with different demands and I am perfectly happy if it stays that way. Linux is user friendly enough if you got any interest in learning and reading some.

                I, for one, have switched to XFCE a long time ago. While I'm not 100% happy, bash scripts and simple hobby hacks let me do what I want to do without getting in my way and I really got no serious complaints.

                Gnome is going to die if it doesn't change, because the user base it wants to attract simply isn't available.
                Last edited by skurk; 08-13-2012, 08:59 PM.


                • #53
                  catering to beginners is not a bad thing per se, only when a cater to a beginner (an adult one) I set them up with lxde.
                  I set them with file manager + Audacious to play music too, because if there's one thing you gotta learn to use it's the file manager. an itunes clone is distraction and an additional layer. I also give them firefox so the browser has "file edit view.."

                  any "modern" stuff is more stuff to learn (there's already a lot to do with right click, drag'n'drop, web navigation - have as home page, with a home button)

                  I would like KDE, maybe : if there's some place you could choose a "profile" or template, one where you're given a classic start menu, all effects disabled, activities disabled. I have no incentive to get rid of the cruft myself while I can use another desktop.


                  • #54
                    Lot's of Doom here. Personally I've switched to xfce as well, but it is a rather primitive desktop-environment, on the positive side of things mabe this mess will accelerate xfce-development and attract new xfce-developers implementing feature-fullness....


                    • #55
                      How is Xfce a "primitive desktop" environment? As compared to what? It is very much like Gnome 2 if that is what you want, only a little leaner (but not by much) and a bit cleaner. But it offers most of the same features as Gnome 2 did, including a built in compositer which I personally find to be the most configurable and easiest to use.

                      My main complaints at the moment centre purely around Thunar (lack of tabs, search, some mounting issuesetc) and xfdesktop (icons have trouble staying in position); other than that I do not have many complaints. However, as you can see, I am still on Fedora 16 and as such Xfce 4.8. I will see what 4.10 brings in the fall.

                      Even LXDE is getting to a point where I am want of complaint, and it has done this while maintaining it's lightweight stature. With a little work you can even get it to clean up fairly well and make it even look quite modern.

                      Of course, if you want bling or other more advanced features you should choose Gnome 3 or KDE. But I do not think it is fair to call either Xfce or LXDE primitive anymore.
                      Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 08-17-2012, 11:45 AM.


                      • #56
                        you have "Gigolo" on one of the desktops, is that software with a penis?


                        • #57
                          Eschewing the legitimately odd name for a moment:
                          Gigolo is a frontend to easily manage connections to local and remote filesystems using GIO/GVfs. It allows you to quickly connect/mount a remote filesystem and manage bookmarks of such ... Gigolo itself provides a frontend to manage connections to those resources, to create bookmarks and automatically connecting to bookmarks.
                          You may ask why it is called Gigolo, a strange name for an application. But actually it fits pretty well for what it does: It mounts what it is told to. That's all.
                          Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 08-17-2012, 05:59 PM.


                          • #58
                            XFCE is not primitive at all. It's got all I need. A panel, a systray, proper multi monitor support (i.e no retarded global app menu like OSX and Gnome 3) and enough configuration options. Like someone above pointed out Thunar is a bit lacking though. Would like proper support for network bookmarks (nfs, ftp, smb) and tabs. But other than that I am a happy camper.


                            I'm guessing XFCE's userbase increase is a linear function relative to Gnome 3's userbase decrease. Hopefully something positive emerges from that (or pacmans, pun intended).


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by xeizo View Post
                              Lot's of Doom here. Personally I've switched to xfce as well, but it is a rather primitive desktop-environment, on the positive side of things mabe this mess will accelerate xfce-development and attract new xfce-developers implementing feature-fullness....
                              Yeah, sure. After I got fed up with the characters in charge of GNOME and had my one last big surge of Linux enthusiasm, I tried getting involved with XFCE. I basically got told that they were entirely happy with their slow-as-shit pace and that my patches would languish in bug reports for ages before they even started on a road map for major new features.


                              • #60
                                Xfce, like Gnome, has a registry. FYI.