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The Future Of GNOME: Very Optimistic?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rrohbeck
    I think Mate with Gtk3 and some selectively merged Gnome3 changes/apps would be the right thing to do for RedHat.
    Gnome3 classic is unusable at the moment. *Maybe* if they put some real work into it and re-introduce the features they cut out (and get rid of the non-features.)
    MATE is a dead-software walking. All these times working on a depreciated desktop environment could be done on gnome-shell extensions, some of them fully replicate legacy gnome-panel by taking advantage of GTK3. Gnome-shell was designed to be quasi barebone which can be extended. Panel configuration is in progress, meanwhile gnome-tweak-tools does a decent job to provide more customization.

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    • #17
      Which is why Cinnamon is taking the bull by its horns and leading with GTK+3. If you don't like GNOME, give Cinnamon a try. It's quite tasty, actually.

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      • #18
        Gnome Shell not for tablets

        I keep reading the constant rehash that Gnome Shell is a tablet interface. Rubbish. Gnome Shell is way too mouse centric. A tablet shell could be created, and that is what Gnome 3.x is all about. A framework that can be made into anything. Some people see the way it works, that is why we have Cinnamon. Cinnamon for Gnome 2.x die-hards. Cinnamon is just an alternate shell for Gnome 3. Others can be created, it only takes imagination and you have your own DE. Cinnamon is only about 4mb of packages. You can use extensions to bend Gnome Shell in all sorts of ways. If you look at http://extensions.gnome.org you find an ever growing list of extensions for all sorts of gizmos and gadgets and UI changes.

        You can guess that I use Gnome 3.4. I have a selection of extensions to make my desktop the way I like it. With Gnome Tweak Tool and a few extensions you can make a DE that mimics Gnome 2.x, if that is your want. But, you have to take the time to learn how it works, try things out, change it again, then settle on your creation. "But, I should not have to do all that just to make it work" - funnily enough most of us who use 3.4 like the default more than 2.x. Then fiddle with it to make it a bit different.

        How to make Gnome Shell act like Gnome 2.x

        Install Gnome Tweak Tool and use it to have the file manager control the desktop - then spread your icons everywhere (shudder!)
        Install extensions
        Axe menu
        Window List Extension
        Hot Corn Dog
        User Themes - manually copy the themes into ~/.themes
        Frippery Shutdown
        Frippery Move Clock

        That is a good start point, you would end up with one toolbar along the top, a traditional menu (but more like the Mint Menu), a task switcher, and shut down as a default item. And a traditional desktop.

        "But, I should not have to do all that just to make it work" - easier than installing Mate and you have all the latest versions of Gnome libs and programs.

        Embrace the future or not, it is up to you

        Off soapbox for now.

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        • #19
          While just 4 days ago

          The outlook for Gnome3 wasn't so optimistic http://www.osnews.com/story/26227/GN...nto_the_abyss_

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rrohbeck
            There are, unfortunately, some tools that require X. SMclient for example. It is also handy to have a bunch of terminals open.
            you need Gnome for that?! lol.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ninez View Post
              with the time they spent fixing build errors, renaming software to stop conflicts, while also making small changes to nautilus - they could have written the missing components they wanted for Gnome 3 and had time to spare ~ Fork gnome-panel, add a few missing features, etc. Mate at best is a band-aid.
              This +1.

              I must admit that I am disappointed at the state of the panel in Gnome 3 Fallback Mode as it is currently in Fedora 17, but other than that I have little to no complaints about the classic interface.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by rrohbeck
                I think Mate with Gtk3 and some selectively merged Gnome3 changes/apps would be the right thing to do for RedHat.
                Yeah, and maybe that'll happen in four or five years time, if they developers haven't given up by then. The only way the MATE developers are going to get to Gtk 3 is by throwing out most of the Gnome 2 code they've inherited, and starting again based on the work the Gnome 3 devs have already done.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by grege View Post
                  I keep reading the constant rehash that Gnome Shell is a tablet interface. Rubbish. Gnome Shell is way too mouse centric
                  Not at all... I find Shell to be just as good as the old Gnome 2 UI as far as keyboard support is concerned. What is it that you want to do, that can't be done without a mouse?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                    The outlook for Gnome3 wasn't so optimistic http://www.osnews.com/story/26227/GN...nto_the_abyss_
                    Yes, well - heaven forbid that different people have different opinions. Benjamin Otte might be unhappy with Gnome direction (or lack thereof), but that doesn't mean others can't hold more positive views.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      This +1.

                      I must admit that I am disappointed at the state of the panel in Gnome 3 Fallback Mode as it is currently in Fedora 17, but other than that I have little to no complaints about the classic interface.
                      Umm, "fallback mode" was dropped in favor of offering gnome shell through llvmpipe in 3.4, was it not?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by liam View Post
                        Umm, "fallback mode" was dropped in favor of offering gnome shell through llvmpipe in 3.4, was it not?
                        It is still there with Fedora 17 which is using 3.4. And so far I have not seen the llvmpipe implementation being used on any of my machines. It is either Shell or being booted back into Fallback.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                          Not at all... I find Shell to be just as good as the old Gnome 2 UI as far as keyboard support is concerned. What is it that you want to do, that can't be done without a mouse?
                          My point was that it is not a suitable as tablet interface. You also cannot use keyboard shortcuts on a tablet.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by liam View Post
                            Umm, "fallback mode" was dropped in favor of offering gnome shell through llvmpipe in 3.4, was it not?
                            not really, other than maybe in some 'official default' capacity.

                            /usr/bin/gnome-panel is still shipped and (although i already covered this in another post) Fallback is nothing more than a .session file, with a list of required components for the desktop. This applies to Unity, GS, fallback/classic or any combo you can come up with on your desktop. As soon as you remove Gnome-Shell from your session file (or create a .session file without it), you won't be using GS with h/w acceleration or llvmpipe (because you wont be using GSA at all

                            here is gnome.session (aka Gnome-Shell);

                            RequiredComponents=gnome-shell;gnome-settings-daemon;
                            IsRunnableHelper=/usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
                            FallbackSession=gnome-fallback
                            not much to see here, GS + GSD ... has a H/W accel check and then passes it off to FallbackSession, if it fails(?) or uses llvmpipe(?)

                            fallback/classic;

                            RequiredComponents=gnome-panel;gnome-settings-daemon;
                            RequiredProviders=windowmanager;notifications;
                            DefaultProvider-windowmanager=metacity
                            DefaultProvider-notifications=notification-daemon
                            So really, fallback is pretty much just gnome-panel + metacity. which is expected. and here is cinnamon just for kicks;

                            [GNOME Session]
                            Name=Cinnamon
                            RequiredComponents=cinnamon;gnome-settings-daemon;
                            IsRunnableHelper=/usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
                            FallbackSession=gnome-fallback
                            DesktopName=GNOME

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by grege View Post
                              I keep reading the constant rehash that Gnome Shell is a tablet interface. Rubbish. Gnome Shell is way too mouse centric.
                              For that reasoning, any interface can be adapted for tablet with configuration. I would say Gnome Shell is more keyboard > mouse centric. For example, to access an application like terminal, Super Key -> type 'terminal' or Alt+F2 -> type 'terminal'.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rrohbeck
                                Servers generally have unaccelerated graphics with *old* graphics graphic controllers and IPMI and I don't see that changing any time soon.
                                Which means that RHEL will not use Gnome3 in its current state.
                                I expect RedHat/Fedora to switch to Mate pretty soon.
                                And then Gnome will have a bright future indeed.
                                If Fedora reverts back to the old Start-Menu and taskbar stuff, I am going to remove it from my netbook and install some KDE instead with plasma or a distribution where one can choose the DE without breaking everything

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