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Is Compiz On Its Deathbed?

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  • #16
    Yeah, I don't really see a problem with compiz. It's feature rich, more so than any other windowing manager or compositor.

    It doesn't really make sense to start over unless the code base is just unsustainable.

    Yes it has bugs, but only if you use obscure compiz plugins. It's been working great here along with VMware gallium drivers.

    What is a shame is how the various compositing managers conflict. I'd like to have a compiz backend along with cinnamon as the front end. Or mix XFCE's simple window manager along with compiz.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by LLStarks View Post
      Compiz has fallen hard from its Beryl and Fusion days.

      It used to be the face of the 3D Linux desktop.

      But we can't have it anymore since Gnome 3 and Unity make it impossible to use it.
      Harsh words for the software that put windows to shame for many years in the looks department.
      For some reason, the leading window managers have chosen to implement their own compositing engines. Inevitably, this means a much narrower audience for Compiz. From there, there's not a big stretch to predict Compiz developers loosing interest and the project stagnating. I'll always have fond memories of Compiz and my friends faces whem I showed them Linux can look 10x better than Windows.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Teho View Post
        Mutter was forked for Cinnamon so I doubt things would have gone that smoothly; the control is definetly an important factor and communication between Gnome and Ubuntu doesn't seem to work at all...

        I do see moving to KWin as a best option from technical standpoint as well as deprecating Unity 3D in favour of Qt. If Canonical goal is to conquer all the possible formfactors they really should just go with Qt/KF as a base. But again I doubt that that's not going to happen.

        Cinnamon forked mutter b/c of small differences in opinion. They weren't serious technical reasons (http://forum.pinguyos.com/Thread-Cin...nome-3?page=13) according to that. So I don't think we can extrapolate much from that. The Mint guys aren't about to take on a full on FORK (as in major changes, rather than a moving set of patches with frequent upstream sync) of a WM.
        I agree that Ubuntu would be best served by moving completely over to a QT base, but not b/c it CAN be used at multiple form factors, but simple b/c the codebase would be easier to manage. EFL seems to be the best choice for embedded devices (even ignoring the Tiago change, EFL is pretty dominant in that whole area), but its stack isn't as comprehensive as QT's, and I don't see Ubuntu as a company that can build infrastructure level services.
        From 30 000 ft it seems as if Ubuntu is losing mindshare which was its biggest commodity. If they want to remain a strong desktop force they have to get that back (or at least have the perception that they have it back).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by liam View Post
          Cinnamon forked mutter b/c of small differences in opinion. They weren't serious technical reasons (http://forum.pinguyos.com/Thread-Cin...nome-3?page=13) according to that. So I don't think we can extrapolate much from that. The Mint guys aren't about to take on a full on FORK (as in major changes, rather than a moving set of patches with frequent upstream sync) of a WM.
          I agree that Ubuntu would be best served by moving completely over to a QT base, but not b/c it CAN be used at multiple form factors, but simple b/c the codebase would be easier to manage. EFL seems to be the best choice for embedded devices (even ignoring the Tiago change, EFL is pretty dominant in that whole area), but its stack isn't as comprehensive as QT's, and I don't see Ubuntu as a company that can build infrastructure level services.
          From 30 000 ft it seems as if Ubuntu is losing mindshare which was its biggest commodity. If they want to remain a strong desktop force they have to get that back (or at least have the perception that they have it back).
          Ubuntu Netbook was based on EFL before it moved to Qt. It is why they given up and rewrote the thing.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by liam View Post
            You'd think that except it doesn't seem like they make decisions based on technical merit. There original move from Mutter was supposedly based upon the an engineer's discovery that mutter had fundamental perfomsnce issues thus the move to the more "mature" compiz. Of course this decision has come back to haunt them. My guess is that the real reason they wanted to stay away from mutter was that they wanted to control the entire user facing codebase (Unity). If they had stayed with mutter they would currently have ogles2 support for free, and a very good codebase for a WM.
            As it stands now, I think moving to kwin is the logical step. It supports plenty of backends and is modular enough to provide the effects they need. However, I have doubts as to the long term ability of Ubuntu to create a viable DE. I just don't think they have the technical will (IMHO, this is b/c of Shuttleworth).
            Agreed. Mutter was pretty slow in its early development, but ubuntu's decision to up and drop it was extremely shortsighted. Mutter has improved massively and gnome-shell runs super smooth (smoother than unity) on the machines I've ran it on. Mutter is also leaner and more modern. Unity really could have benefited if they stuck with it imo.

            Compiz strength is in the tons of plugins it has, but unity doesn't use most of them anyway, and playing around with ccsm can break unity.

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            • #21
              One thing to note about Compiz development is that it no longer happens in GIT. All of it is happening in BZR from now on.

              I would hardly say that compiz is dead though. I'm running Compiz-0.9.7 in Archlinux right now.

              Compiz is fast and stable over here ~ but i am using Nvidia + only the plugins that i need.

              I've also been experimenting with Cinnamon/muffin ~ but much like GS - i experience xruns / glitchyness when using either actitives (in GS) or the 'scale' plugin (in Cinnamon). Compiz still works the best for me in this area (although, it used to cause issues way back when).

              It'll be interesting to see what the cinnamon devs do over time... for me Compiz' selling points are the vast array of 'useful' plugins, that pretty much have no counterparts are found in GS/mutter/Cinnamon/muffin. Although, KDE/kwin has similar features - it's way too much bloat and i don't want to pull in kwin on a non-kde desktop -> although i could be wrong, and someone can correct me if i am wrong -> it probably has some hard dependencies of KDE related packages.

              cheerz

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              • #22
                I wonder if some masochist will create a Unity clone as a (set of?) Gnome-shell extension(s).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Suzuran View Post
                  I wonder if some masochist will create a Unity clone as a (set of?) Gnome-shell extension(s).
                  I've seen a screenshot of such an extension ~ it was the Unity dock, and it looked pretty much the same as in Unity. however, i don't know how good it is really (cause i don't use Gnome-Shell).

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                  • #24
                    Compiz is not dead. It just moved house without telling anyone:
                    https://launchpad.net/compiz-core/+milestone/0.9.7.0
                    https://code.launchpad.net/compiz-core

                    Compiz is using the LaunchPad project name "compiz-core" because "compiz" was already taken by the Ubuntu packagers.

                    A new release 0.9.7.0 is due within weeks and should debut in Ubuntu 12.04 beta-1.

                    This all really should have been published on compiz.org, but smspillaz is so busy working on the new release that obviously he hasn't had time.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LLStarks View Post
                      Compiz has fallen hard from its Beryl and Fusion days.

                      It used to be the face of the 3D Linux desktop.

                      But we can't have it anymore since Gnome 3 and Unity make it impossible to use it.

                      The ubuntu compiz devs killed it IMO by not keeping up with DE changes and poor coding.

                      http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1352


                      Compiz was retired from F17 last night (no last minute reprieves )

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by leigh123linux View Post
                        Compiz was retired from F17 last night (no last minute reprieves )
                        Why would you gloat about it? It was dropped due to lack of a maintainer, not publicly executed for the crime of "poor coding". Spare us the fatuous and inaccurate hyperbole.

                        Sam deserves credit for his efforts. Yes, Compiz is currently not as polished as it could be and he well knows it; he evidently doesn't require tutting gossipers to tell him so. Yes, some better organisation and project management wouldn't go amiss. He's a young, very talented guy, learning on his feet, with a bright future to look forward to.

                        Like ninez, I use Compiz 0.9 on Arch along with JACK and have similarly found it to be a better fit than GS or Cinnamon. The worry I have is that Compiz will become too close integrated with Unity/Ubuntu. Heres to hoping it remains essentially agnostic (one of its greatest assets).

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by una.szplodrmann View Post
                          Why would you gloat about it? It was dropped due to lack of a maintainer, not publicly executed for the crime of "poor coding". Spare us the fatuous and inaccurate hyperbole.

                          Sam deserves credit for his efforts. Yes, Compiz is currently not as polished as it could be and he well knows it; he evidently doesn't require tutting gossipers to tell him so. Yes, some better organisation and project management wouldn't go amiss. He's a young, very talented guy, learning on his feet, with a bright future to look forward to.

                          Like ninez, I use Compiz 0.9 on Arch along with JACK and have similarly found it to be a better fit than GS or Cinnamon. The worry I have is that Compiz will become too close integrated with Unity/Ubuntu. Heres to hoping it remains essentially agnostic (one of its greatest assets).

                          I was the owner/maintainer for the fedora compiz packages.


                          The worry I have is that Compiz will become too close integrated with Unity/Ubuntu
                          Too late, Sam IMO he killed compiz by making it rpm unfriendly .

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by leigh123linux View Post
                            I was the owner/maintainer for the fedora compiz packages.

                            Too late, Sam IMO he killed compiz by making it rpm unfriendly .
                            Well, compiz isn't dead over here ~ but then again, I don't use Fedora

                            By your bug report, clearly you knew how to fix the problem ~ why didn't you just submit a patch, then? (or even just create/use the patch yourself, when making your compiz packages?).

                            I mean not every distro does things the same. (that being said, yeah, i agree it should be fixed)...But i still don't see that as a huge issue.... On Archlinux (as an example), i often have to modify sources/or export which version of python to use (python2 or python(3)... ). I don't see your packaging problem, being any bigger of a deal than that. It takes less than a minute to create and apply a patch, or write a fix using 'sed' to modify the 2 lines, mentioned in your report.

                            cheers

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by leigh123linux View Post
                              I was the owner/maintainer for the fedora compiz packages.
                              Ahhh, I see.

                              Originally posted by leigh123linux View Post
                              Too late, Sam IMO he killed compiz by making it rpm unfriendly .
                              What with Fedora comprising the totality of desktop linux development, and all that.

                              Maybe Compiz will fizzle, maybe it won't. I'd say the large number of bug fixes committed recently is more telling than the doomsaying of an ex-packager.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by una.szplodrmann View Post
                                [...]
                                Heres to hoping it remains essentially agnostic (one of its greatest assets).
                                Well this is the very reason why it is "dying" i.e a compositor should be part of the desktop environment to be well integrated. That's why kwin and mutter (gnome-shell) are now used. Unity is in the same booth. Basically the idea of having a desktop agnostic window-manager and compositor failed.

                                That's how things turned out; which kinda makes sense. As for compiz it is not gong to "die" in the foreseeable feature i.e as long as it is used by Unity.

                                Yet another former fedora compiz maintainer (I stopped maintaining it back then because I moved on to GNOME3 where it does not really fit in anymore see above).

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