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It's Easy To Guess What Angers GNOME Users

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  • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
    It seems more like you can't stand to see something you worked on get ridiculed, so you ignore the user. Which might I mind you was the problem in the first place.
    I guess you didn't google which part I worked on then.

    I have no difficulty ignoring users who I do not consider to offer useful feedback, or to be the target of G3.

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    • Originally posted by nzjrs View Post
      I guess you didn't google which part I worked on then.

      I have no difficulty ignoring users who I do not consider to offer useful feedback, or to be the target of G3.
      See, the problem is you only see the trolls rather than the many, many people who gave point by point problems of G3. One of the main problem with G3 is that it essentially said screw you to the user. Just once did the G3 developers count the mouse clicks, did they once measure the amount of mouse movement, or the amount of keyboard clicks to do anything in comparison to Gnome 2? Did they have a survey like Phoronix did asking what they wanted? No. NOT ONCE. This is what the G3 devs get for ignorance.

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      • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
        See, the problem is you only see the trolls rather than the many, many people who gave point by point problems of G3. One of the main problem with G3 is that it essentially said screw you to the user. Just once did the G3 developers count the mouse clicks, did they once measure the amount of mouse movement, or the amount of keyboard clicks to do anything in comparison to Gnome 2? Did they have a survey like Phoronix did asking what they wanted? No. NOT ONCE. This is what the G3 devs get for ignorance.
        Define your user.

        We just draw the line in different places. Im sure we both have no difficulty ignoring hardcore folks like stallman, hardcore tiling wm users, etc. They barely fitted in G2. They do not fit in vanilla G3. Meh.

        Would you design a robot based on a survey of what 10000 people wanted? Good luck. It would be a camel.

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        • Originally posted by nzjrs View Post
          Define your user.

          We just draw the line in different places. Im sure we both have no difficulty ignoring hardcore folks like stallman, hardcore tiling wm users, etc. They barely fitted in G2. They do not fit in vanilla G3. Meh.

          Would you design a robot based on a survey of what 10000 people wanted? Good luck. It would be a camel.
          Funny you ask. I am an engineering student and I was on a robotics team. I was the lead programmer for said team. There was a large argument over whether the controls should be entirely for one person or split between two people. There would be a lot of work that would have to go into redesigning the control systems and I really liked how the controls already were. I myself wanted it to be for one person, because I already programmed it that way. The majority of the team wanted it split between two people. So, you know what I did? I DID WHAT THE FUCK THE USERS WANTED! I gave the users what they wanted, and if I gave them a camel so what, if they wanted a camel I gave them A CAMEL I did my job.

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          • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
            Funny you ask. I am an engineering student and I was on a robotics team. I was the lead programmer for said team. There was a large argument over whether the controls should be entirely for one person or split between two people. There would be a lot of work that would have to go into redesigning the control systems and I really liked how the controls already were. I myself wanted it to be for one person, because I already programmed it that way. The majority of the team wanted it split between two people. So, you know what I did? I DID WHAT THE FUCK THE USERS WANTED! I gave the users what they wanted, and if I gave them a camel so what, if they wanted a camel I gave them A CAMEL I did my job.
            I know, I googled you. I've been there, done that.

            Make a note to read the paragraph you just wrote again in a few years. I bet my house your views will have shifted 180 degrees. Only then will you realise that you prove my very point.

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            • Originally posted by nzjrs View Post
              I know, I googled you. I've been there, done that.

              Make a note to read the paragraph you just wrote again in a few years. I bet my house your views will have shifted 180 degrees. Only then will you realise that you prove my very point.
              Which paragraph? Link please. BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if my views had changed about something. Believe it or not, that is very well human.

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              • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                Which paragraph? Link please. BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if my views had changed about something. Believe it or not, that is very well human.
                The entire part I quoted. Literally everything you just wrote. Put it on your wall. When you are a better engineer you will understand.

                I am an engineering student and I was on a robotics team. I was the lead programmer for said team. There was a large argument over whether the controls should be entirely for one person or split between two people. There would be a lot of work that would have to go into redesigning the control systems and I really liked how the controls already were. I myself wanted it to be for one person, because I already programmed it that way. The majority of the team wanted it split between two people. So, you know what I did? I DID WHAT THE FUCK THE USERS WANTED! I gave the users what they wanted, and if I gave them a camel so what, if they wanted a camel I gave them A CAMEL I did my job.

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                • Originally posted by nzjrs View Post
                  The entire part I quoted. Literally everything you just wrote. Put it on your wall. When you are a better engineer you will understand.
                  Sounds like you are an academic with no experience rooted in the real world. I did work before starting college. I worked IT for quite a while, knew it wasn't for me and I needed to go to college, so I am now a Comp E student. The one thing it seems you lack from working experience is the fact that in all reality, the people buying (or using, you get the point) the product are the ones that matter. As a developer, you can complain all you want about what the user wants, but in the end, if you want the user to use what you make, you will have to give them what they want. Anyway, I am done with this tread. I posted helpful information (the tutorial,) and if that ISN'T good enough for you, I really don't care.
                  Last edited by LinuxID10T; 10-18-2011, 10:21 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                    It really isn't a good alternative. It is half baked at best and has many flaws. My solutions has all the pluses of Gnome 3 with the usability of Gnome 2.
                    Interesting...lol. I've been using gnome-fallback since 3.0 was released. I don't find it to be half-baked at all, in fact quite the opposite. I like it better than Gnome 2 - it's less buggy, pretty much the same functionality and applications and i can still use compiz with gnome, over using mutter.

                    From my perspective Gnome-Shell seems half-baked, is slow, still doesn't play that nice with the Nvidia drivers, on some hardware. I personally find that 'workspaces' in GS are badly designed (even making them static and using gnome-flippery still sucks... the activites menu in general, is a much slower process, than a conventional start-menu, and takes up more space, and is distracting (switching workspaces is also slow and distracting).

                    using my tablet with Gnome-Shell also sucks. It is years behind what compiz provides.

                    I Love Gnome 3, but that is because i am not stuck with Gnome-Shell, and can use Gnome-fallback.

                    so, i guess my point is, that it all depends on your perspective, you think fallback is half-baked - but i can just as easily say the same thing about GS...

                    ...and atleast with fallback you can turn compositing ON/OFF at will, without your desktop looking totally different (mine looks exactly the same regardless). Personally, i think GS is a narrow scope, one-size to fit all approach.

                    Fallback mode is better than gnome-shell. it's much more flexible.
                    Last edited by ninez; 10-18-2011, 10:37 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by ninez View Post
                      Interesting...lol. I've been using gnome-fallback since 3.0 was released. I don't find it to be half-baked at all, in fact quite the opposite. I like it better than Gnome 2 - it's less buggy, and i can use compiz with it. In fact, i don't even have to deal with the GS bug, that everyone in this thread keeps mentioning - the desktop freezing problem/

                      From my perspective Gnome-Shell seems half-baked, is slow, still doesn't play that nice with the Nvidia drivers, on some hardware. I personally find that 'workspaces' in GS are badly designed (even making them static and using gnome-flippery still sucks... the activites menu in general, is a much slower process, than a conventional start-menu, and takes up more space, and is distracting (switching workspaces is also slow and distracting).

                      using my tablet with Gnome-Shell also sucks. It is years behind what compiz provides.

                      I Love Gnome 3, but that is because i am not stuck with Gnome-Shell, and can use Gnome-fallback.

                      so, i guess my point is, that it all depends on your perspective, you think fallback is half-baked - but i can just as easily say the same thing about GS...

                      ...and atleast with fallback you can turn compositing ON/OFF at will, without your desktop looking totally different (mine looks exactly the same regardless).

                      Fallback mode is better than gnome-shell.
                      Come to think of it, I think I should try a couple of the modifications in gnome fallback mode, it might actually address a lot of my problems. In a weird way, thanks for the idea.

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                      • Well, regardless of the conversation, I will thank nzjrs for his work on the Gnome Tweak Tool. I did bother to Google him.

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                        • Originally posted by nzjrs View Post
                          Cool story bro.
                          Call me in a year when you finally realize that linux is undergoing an adopt and screw over phase. All you have to do is look at where it's heading.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxSk4YAmmrU

                          There's a saying. The universe is perfect. Fuck with it at your own risk. That statement is a giant lie. The universe is so far from perfect but it doesn't want to change.
                          Gnome 2's biggest problem is it was close to perfect. XP is close to perfect as far as interface is concerned as well.
                          You are about to get massively fucked with as computers turn into giant freaking netbios machines with new system bioses that bring all cores up on startup. Every computer on the planet is going to be completely remote controllable. They are building the kraken and they will come out of dark pools of dark fiber that is supposedly unsold unallocated and unlit behind vpn's with unresolveable names that can mysteriously waltz past mac address blocking in your routers and port shutting in your system firewall. Because only one core has to tell the truth. The others can lie their asses off and you'll never figure it out.

                          But first they have to shut off your ability to focus where you need to. This requires making your desktop and task switching and window positioning unfucking tennable.

                          http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/w...1/09/MTBjU.jpg

                          Gnome 3 is not quite so insidious. Every single operating system on the planet is a keylogger. It's just that simple. If you're computer has a keyboard your operating system functions as a keylogger. Gnome tries to get you to use your keyboard more because every single computer is NOT a mouse logger. Smart phones and ultra portables do all the auto typing because they also try to get you to use a "keyboard" so they can key log you more.

                          Computers should sit around mostly while people think. Presenting gnome 3 as a tool for some coked up red bull snorting keybanging click fiend is not really representing "productivity".

                          What's more important is you better throw a fucking hissy fit about this bios shit or you are going to be in a fucking logic nightmare. And I'm not talking about politely asking why the fuck these changes are happening. I'm talking about 300 watt lights and rubber freaking hose.

                          http://www.cut-the-knot.org/impossible/brothers.shtml

                          Because your about to get schooled in psychopathic boolean logic by the psychopaths that created this technology.
                          Last edited by Hephasteus; 10-19-2011, 02:47 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                            whats the problem? I mean what really sucks, is that ubuntu does not support gnome-shell properly, they dont include some packages that are in the gnome 3.2 release, and they dont make a kind of good theme for it etc, because they wanna force the users to use the much more hated unity desktop.
                            Unity > Gnome Shell. Besides I find understandable that they *now* want to spent all the energy they can on their own project. Gnome developers should have been wiser and have let Canonical have a more important role to the design and decision process of Gnome. That opportunity has come and gone.

                            Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                            Besides that, gnome-shell needs some love but the ideas and concepts of it are really good and neccessary.
                            Unfortunately the most important problem with Gnome Shell are the ideas and concepts.

                            1. Having to switch to "activities" mode to access the task bar and manage windows is atrocious. This requires mental context switching. It is the equivalent of having to switch modes in vi to do text editing. No wonder nobody but geeks use vi. This and only by itself is a show stopper.

                            2. Keyboard shortcuts don't count. The user should be able to do everything just with a mouse and also with minimal mouse movement and click count.

                            3. No minimize / Hidden shutdown (FFFFFFUUUUU).
                            Last edited by zoomblab; 10-19-2011, 03:52 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
                              Mentalities like this must be hard for the gnome developers to deal with.
                              I don't use gnome.

                              OK, I guess compelling open source out of the box and getting it to work on the Mac is wishful thinking.
                              That's a different story. Thanks to Open Source you can run many of its goodies on Mac and Windows, but in the name of what? I prefer to run OS programs in the OS system like Linux.

                              Within seconds of typing you made sure nobody cares about what you have to say. The Mac is relevant to this thread because it provides a viable comparison platform. Beyond that, after reading this thread, I have to say the Mac attracts a more intelligent crowd that does not dwell on the imperfections in their OS.
                              I think most of the people here don't care what you're saying, because most of them prefer Linux than proprietary crap like mac. I have to say mac attracts usually idiots who pay money for toy features and who accept blindly what apple serves them.

                              Well at least every person on this forum with a little development experience knows that you don't have a clue.
                              GCC supports far more architectures, it's usually faster, it compiles Linux and other software that won't compile with LLVM/Clang, it's much more mature. What were you saying macboy?

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                              • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                                So, I am going to be constructive here and tell you all that there ARE Gnome 3 extensions that will make you want to forget about Gnome 2 and LOVE Gnome 3. It is a shame they aren't by default, or at least included in Gnome 3.
                                You should show this to Gnome devs, because it's far more attractive and usable than defaults.

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