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It's Easy To Guess What Angers GNOME Users

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  • #46
    "I'd only change one thing: Stop assuming that users are retarded. ..."
    Judging from the quality of many of these comments I'm starting to think that designing for retards might not be such a bad idea after all...

    But seriously, people should try to be more constructive and perhaps name a few things they don't like and suggest how it can be improved. Posting useless "this shit sucks"-comments isn't helping anyone.

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    • #47
      I learned an important lesson today... most people shouldn't have choices

      Don't like the Gnome 3 DE? Rage the most incomprehensible, non-helpful criticisms into your keyboard and threaten to leave for KDE or Xfce.

      Don't like the Windows DE? Too bad, you're stuck with it. Suck it up and deal with it.

      Until someone can thoroughly explain what it is about Gnome 3 that they hate so much, I'm going to remain convinced that people are just being resistant to change and just need to get used to it. Besides, how is it getting in your way? You click stuff to bring up other stuff so you can do stuff with your computer. How does Gnome 3 get in your way of doing that?

      My pro's and con's:
      Pro's:

      I like how the dock/shell is kept hidden until you flick your mouse to the top-right or hit the windows key. It leaves more room on the screen for other windows. The only persistent thing on the screen is the top bar.

      Integrating online accounts like Gmail/Facebook into Evolution/Empathy is a pretty good idea. It still doesn't work, but it'll be convenient when it does.

      Con's:
      The system tray is a bit clunky. Clicking on tray icon might do one thing, and clicking on the text might do something different. It's inconsistent and needs to be reworked. Also, the icon needs to be on the right side of the text.

      Some programs like Evolution need to be able to be minimized to the tray. Most of the time, I don't want to look at Evolution, I don't even want to see it, until it has something for me.

      Comment


      • #48
        Gnome Fallback is the classic mode!

        As a response to all of the posted survey responses by those wanting a Classic Gnome option to be available, the classic Gnome Panel is still there and has actually had an update which results in some saner panel applet placement. It is called the "Gnome Fallback" mode, and it is by default toggled when Gnome encounters graphics hardware that can not utilize the Shell, but it is also available to everyone from System Settings. Simply put, it is a direct port of the old Panel to Gnome 3 with some updates and a few aesthetics changes.

        http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/20...ve-gnome-panel!

        This mode has actually improved quite a bit over the past year, and now is almost a completely capable Gnome 2.x replacement. All of the official applets are available, the panels are just as configurable as ever (just press the alt key while right clicking), and there are even some specific panel themes available. You can use composting with this mode if you wish, with both Mutter and Compiz being fully able to work with it. Bugs in this mode do get found and are fixed upstream, unlike if you stick with old Gnome 2.x or use a potential fork.

        Here is a screenshot of me using the mode last Saturday, with some tweaks made possible by the Tweak tool, some easy to do tweaks to the default theme, and utilizing Mutter for composting:



        I am also currently working on my own theme which looks almost exactly old Gnome 2.x session on Fedora. It is still a work in progress, but I will release it on Gnome Look once Fedora 16 is released. And despite all of this, I am not even Anti-Gnome Shell, but I do want the Fallback mode to be all it can be as well.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: It doesn't do anything special that it requires compositing. It may be "pretty", but it just makes it SLOW and UNRELIABLE.
          Solution: get rid of compositing, or at least make it OPTIONAL.
          Compositing is already optional, just use the fallback mode. And the "pretty", or "bling bling" as I call it, while not directly useful, it's a great factor for new, non-power, users (people just like pretty things...).

          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: It most DEFINITELY should NOT take up the entire display area. The bigger the area it takes, the further the user has to chase across the screen to get what they're after.
          Solution: Less screen space taken up by uselessness.
          I assume your talking about the activities screen. If that's the case, you're right, but your solution is not the best. Instead of using less screen space, you should be able to increase/decrease the icon's and button's size. Personally, I think the size is perfect and I'm using a 1080p screen.

          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: It should NOT require flipping across the screen 17 times and 273 mouse clicks to launch firefox.
          Solution: One click to open the menu, one click to select the category, one click to open the program.
          *** here's a decent idea.... how about a FREQUENTLY USED category?
          Hrrr....I think you're not using gnome-shell :S For example I launch firefox with 7 key strokes (Window button, f, i, r, e, f, Enter) or with 3 mouse movements and 2 mouse clicks (probably more with a small screen), and even with 1 mouse movement and 1 mouse click if you have firefox in the dock, which is almost the same as your "frequently used" category.

          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: It would be nice to have an easy way to see what programs are running and switch between them rather than opening that insane big ugly bloated mess (one click), and switching into (whatever they call the stupid mode where every open window is shown in microscopic overview so you can't tell the difference between them), you know, something like a WINDOW LIST PANEL!!!!
          Solution: lower panel showing running applications.
          Have you ever heard of Alt-Tab? And I think you can see the open programs in your dock. And their bloated mess (the activities screen I guess) is really great for mouse users because the icons are quite big. You probably have a small screen or a lot of programs open at the same time. If it's the latest, then put your programs into several workspaces.
          By the way, your solution is junk, because it will take permanent space from the display. You don't see Areo, Aqua, KDE, *box with 2 bars don't you?

          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: How about a PARENT DIRECTORY BUTTON IN NAUTILUS???!?!?!!?! Instead, you open, say "Desktop" and you're TRAPPED there....
          Solution: add a ".." button to nautilus.
          Hrrr.....I don't recall having this problem, but I don't think your solution is the best. Instead of ".." button, why not a "up arrow" button and use Ctrl+"Up arrow" as a keyboard shortcut.

          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Problem: The "Every bloody .desktop thrown into a single category" category is a completely useless MESS. GET RID OF IT!!!!! -- but no, instead, they're getting rid of EVERY OTHER category, and will ONLY be showing the "holy shit" category. Now, rather than logically finding the application I'm after by its category, I have to scan the hard way through 10 THOUSAND ICONS IN ONE BLOODY MESS. WTF ARE THEY THINKING???!?!?!
          Solution: remove the "holy shit" category, keep the rest of the categories.
          Honestly I don't understand your problem here, but in gnome 3.2, the activities screen has the categories listed on the right side. Besides, if you use your keyboard to launch an application, you don't need to care about the categories.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
            Don't like the Gnome 3 DE? Rage the most incomprehensible, non-helpful criticisms into your keyboard and threaten to leave for KDE or Xfce.

            Don't like the Windows DE? Too bad, you're stuck with it. Suck it up and deal with it.

            Until someone can thoroughly explain what it is about Gnome 3 that they hate so much, I'm going to remain convinced that people are just being resistant to change and just need to get used to it. Besides, how is it getting in your way? You click stuff to bring up other stuff so you can do stuff with your computer. How does Gnome 3 get in your way of doing that?
            I do like your comparison with Windows and Linux... HEHE, If you don't like the GDM in Windows, your screwed :-D. With Linux, you do have choice.

            What I don't like about Gnome is the extra amount of actions it takes to get from place to place. Same with Unity. I have CTS and I find it painful to have to keep wheeling my mouse to the top left to get a panel open so i can search (More movement and typing) for my applications. With Gnome 2 and KDE (And every other WM out there), I can set up icons on the desktop and panel and simply click on them to open and I also have a task bar where I can simply click on the minimized application to bring it up front. Far fewer mouse or hand movements than Unity or Gnome Shell where you have to either move the mouse to the top left, then back down, then click the applications - try this while working with multiple apps at the same time. ALT-Tab works, but can be quite painful with 30 to 40 apps open and trying to alt-tab-click through them all trying to find the right app you are looking for. With KDE and Gnome 2 (And every other WM out there), all your apps are neatly stacked on the task bar ready to click once.

            With Gnome Shell and Unity, there is simply too much movement for my arm and hands to handle.

            As far as looks go, it looks nice, but KDE has much, much, much smoother animation on my Laptop than Unity Or Gnome shell.

            But, to each his/her own. I was an avid Gnome user for 4-5 years and I just find I can't physically use it anymore. So, back to KDE and I am glad I am back. Lots of nostalgia for me also as I started live on Linux with KDE back in the late 90's :-D.

            Joe

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            • #51
              Originally posted by LinuxRocks View Post
              I do like your comparison with Windows and Linux... HEHE, If you don't like the GDM in Windows, your screwed :-D. With Linux, you do have choice.

              What I don't like about Gnome is the extra amount of actions it takes to get from place to place. Same with Unity. I have CTS and I find it painful to have to keep wheeling my mouse to the top left to get a panel open so i can search (More movement and typing) for my applications.
              Tip: just hit the symbol key and start typing. No mouse movement involved.

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              • #52
                that's why!

                Ok, I'm one of those Gnome3 haters.

                Why? Just because Gnome2 was just perfect for the way I work, and Gnome3 completely fail to provide a productive environment.
                These are just the firsts feature that come in my mind that I miss (or I hate in Gnome3)

                1. composite is SLOW on my machine. All those animation are a HUGE waste of time
                2. I use to keep several termina on each of my workspace, and I need to switch between them very fast.
                - a taskbar is absolutely required
                - minimizing button is absolutely required
                3. I use to switch between my desktop just going on the panel applet and rolling the mouse weel: that was just easy and fast. Now I have to
                - a) use both my hands (not comfortable)
                - b) making 1/2 mile with mouse and wait while gnome3 render its unuseful animations
                4. I liked having an always visible notification area because I have made some application which display informations I NEED to constatly keep an eye on

                and I could go on for half an hour.

                Well, these are reasonable (I think) reasons to hate gnome3.

                I'm a 10+ years linux user, and honesty it has always been fun to use linux.

                Now it really sucks, and for the first time since 1998 I'm seriously thinking about trying something else.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by fhuberts View Post
                  If you want to improve anything you might consider providing constructive feedback that provides details and suggestions instead of bitching about everything.

                  This article and its forum discussion is another excellent example of the degeneration of Phoronix
                  I'm sure Gnome devs get a lot of feedback from Gnome/ex-Gnome users. Just read lwn.net. However, according to some Gnome dev response they didn't make Gnome3 for Gnome2 users, but for some "target".

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
                    Seriously good product these days. You more or less get a BSD UNIX with a good set of apps. Plus the ability to run hundreds of UNIX and X apps. Best of both worlds. Further it puts some real space between me and GPL3.

                    Considering the amount of Open source software that Apple does support I actually end up feeling pretty good about the choice. LLVM/CLang are coming along really well offering a real alternative to GCC. All my usual tools are right there or a download away. If not Apple has been pricing commercial software much more reasonably these days.

                    In a nut shell I don't have to put up with GNome anymore.
                    Thanks, but I prefer "broken" Gnome than mac or shitty bsd unix (hey, but there are other DEs as well!). Saying "the best of both worlds" is nothing, but your wishful thinking. There's many more in Linux than Gnome and mac is a toy for me. I don't even care about macs, so there's no reason to talk about them in this thread. There's KDE which shoots mac in the head. LLVM/CLang is still years behind GCC in few things and it's also uninteresting right now.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cynic View Post
                      Ok, I'm one of those Gnome3 haters.

                      Why? Just because Gnome2 was just perfect for the way I work, and Gnome3 completely fail to provide a productive environment.
                      These are just the firsts feature that come in my mind that I miss (or I hate in Gnome3)

                      1. composite is SLOW on my machine. All those animation are a HUGE waste of time
                      2. I use to keep several termina on each of my workspace, and I need to switch between them very fast.
                      - a taskbar is absolutely required
                      - minimizing button is absolutely required
                      3. I use to switch between my desktop just going on the panel applet and rolling the mouse weel: that was just easy and fast. Now I have to
                      - a) use both my hands (not comfortable)
                      - b) making 1/2 mile with mouse and wait while gnome3 render its unuseful animations
                      4. I liked having an always visible notification area because I have made some application which display informations I NEED to constatly keep an eye on

                      and I could go on for half an hour.

                      Well, these are reasonable (I think) reasons to hate gnome3.

                      I'm a 10+ years linux user, and honesty it has always been fun to use linux.

                      Now it really sucks, and for the first time since 1998 I'm seriously thinking about trying something else.
                      I hear your pain... Belive me!

                      Try KDE or LXDE - LXDE doesn't have all the bells and whistle animations that Gnome and KDE have. I went back to KDE cause I don't mind a little "Bling" and its so much more functional for what I do.

                      Don't give up on Linux because the Gnome developers don't know what they are doing.

                      But, at the end of the day, it all boils down to whether you can get your work done - that's the most important part after all.

                      Joe

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Constructive critisism:
                        1. It lacks power from a standpoint of any WM available because it doesn't let you design your own workflow;
                        2. It lacks power form a feature standpoint;
                        3. It's unintuitive because it totaly abandons the desktop metaphore;
                        4. It requires insanely lengthy mouse movements that are not required;
                        5. It looks like a multi-touch tablet UI, but it requires a mouse and is not good for tablet;
                        6. It failed its original design goals (hence Ubuntu has Unity right now);
                        7. It consumes too much power per feature;
                        8. The design is an uninspired hack-and-slash thing with "Let's throw all these things into a single UI that's going to be t3h B3sT Ev4h!!!"-teenage reaction;
                        9. The toolkit is years behind Qt;
                        10. The developper framework is years behind that of KDE.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Do NOT listen to them please!

                          I have recently installed Gnome 3.2 on Ubuntu 11.10. My only complaint is that it occasionally freezes for 2 seconds, and resumes back to work when I search for something, and apart from that slight cosmetic problems in terms of polish. But I love Gnome 3.2, I love it more than the Unity mess and I love it more than my awesome synapse+docky+global menu&windowbuttons on 10.04
                          I like the window management in Gnome Shell(needs Window navigator plugin as a builtin feature, not plugin) and although the search could be faster, I think the final product is much better for me in terms of productivity since I have a lot of windows open most of the time.
                          I just want a separate Ubuntu flavor to be made with Gnome Shell without any Unity.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I guess it is a matter of perspective, Mac OS is as customizable as I need it to be.

                            Originally posted by Nevertime View Post
                            I would have though most of the crit you hear applied to gnome 3 could be give to lion as well. Lack of customisation. Similar design ideas etc But I got too admit the macbook air Is a fine looking machine. I have thought about getting a mac. But no its not for me.
                            To be honest though customization isn't what drove me away from Linux. I went MBP in 2008 but had been running Linux for probably ten years before that with the earliest Redhat(4 or 5) releases. This on desktop hardware but I wanted a laptop at the time and even now buying a laptop to use with Linux needs research and a willingness to tinker. With a Mac I get UNIX on a laptop that is stable and mostly tinker free.

                            That is one big issue but I think another is the programming environment which in many ways is much nice than gnome. Gnome should have switched to an object oriented language years ago. C++ would be a good choice here. Admittedly this would be a huge undertaking but it would also help rationalize some of the API.

                            In any event with the advent of VMs running Linux on my MBP is very easy these days. If I need Linux it is only a quick launch of an app away. In a nutshell VM tech means that most OS's are as easy to run as an app.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bwat47 View Post

                              If you are scanning through thousands of icons you are doing it wrong, use the damn search. And your "frequently used" apps belong on the dock, thats what its there for.
                              Heh.. I agree.. I don't think the old Gnome 2.x / KDE 3.x models scale up at all.. Sure, it might be great for somebody who runs a few terminals and a web browser, but it's not uncommon for PCs to have over 250 games installed these days... It's just not realistic to have the traditional menu system anymore.. Under Windows, it's not so bad because you can start up steam and then have your 250+ games under there, but under Linux it's a nightmare in getting around the Gnome 2.x application menus when you've got tons of apps installed.

                              A lot of the people complaining sound like they just want to run Gnome 2.x... So just let them run Gnome 2.x, I really don't care..

                              There will always be those who want to clutch onto the old.. I know some people who still run fluxbox and Solaris... But the industry itself has long since moved on...

                              As far as people's needs for a taskbar, that is arguable. Psychology has long proven that the more ways people divide their attention across unrelated tasks, the less efficient they become in getting work done compared to if they focused on one task at a time. This has been proven again and again and again since the 1960s.. Anybody who has ever tried to do some coding while trying to answer instant messages at the same time knows exactly what I mean. Anybody who has ever tried to text message while driving a car will know exactly what I mean.. Computers are getting so fast now that people spend less and less time waiting on the computer to do things, so they shouldn't be multi-tasking as much as has been needed in the past. The multi-tasking mess that Bill Gates created will most likely just go away but it's unsurprising that some people want to clutch onto it because it's probably how they've been using a computer their entire lives.
                              Last edited by Sidicas; 10-18-2011, 03:51 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by 0xCAFE View Post
                                And who do you reach on Phoronix with a survey? Not normal users, only power users, nerds and haters.
                                Agree on this, I hope haters won't be so much, I hope for constructive survey... But I'm afraid there will be trolls as well

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