It's Easy To Guess What Angers GNOME Users

[bwat47]

Call me in a year when you finally realize that linux is undergoing an adopt and screw over phase. All you have to do is look at where it's heading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxSk4YAmmrU

There's a saying. The universe is perfect. Fuck with it at your own risk. That statement is a giant lie. The universe is so far from perfect but it doesn't want to change.
Gnome 2's biggest problem is it was close to perfect. XP is close to perfect as far as interface is concerned as well.
You are about to get massively fucked with as computers turn into giant freaking netbios machines with new system bioses that bring all cores up on startup. Every computer on the planet is going to be completely remote controllable. They are building the kraken and they will come out of dark pools of dark fiber that is supposedly unsold unallocated and unlit behind vpn's with unresolveable names that can mysteriously waltz past mac address blocking in your routers and port shutting in your system firewall. Because only one core has to tell the truth. The others can lie their asses off and you'll never figure it out.

But first they have to shut off your ability to focus where you need to. This requires making your desktop and task switching and window positioning unfucking tennable.

http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MTBjU.jpg

Gnome 3 is not quite so insidious. Every single operating system on the planet is a keylogger. It's just that simple. If you're computer has a keyboard your operating system functions as a keylogger. Gnome tries to get you to use your keyboard more because every single computer is NOT a mouse logger. Smart phones and ultra portables do all the auto typing because they also try to get you to use a "keyboard" so they can key log you more.

Computers should sit around mostly while people think. Presenting gnome 3 as a tool for some coked up red bull snorting keybanging click fiend is not really representing "productivity".

What's more important is you better throw a fucking hissy fit about this bios shit or you are going to be in a fucking logic nightmare. And I'm not talking about politely asking why the fuck these changes are happening. I'm talking about 300 watt lights and rubber freaking hose.

http://www.cut-the-knot.org/impossible/brothers.shtml

Because your about to get schooled in psychopathic boolean logic by the psychopaths that created this technology.

Are you serious? I can't believe posts this stupid even exist. Gnome 3 is trying to get you to use the keyboard so it can keylog you? That is the most idiodic thing I've heard in some time. Take off your tinfoil hat and get over yourself.

[kraftman]

I find this a good measure, but you don't get all those FaceBook junkies etc. Only people who actual visit Wikipedia to look up stuff. Which most people do at work, since without Wikipedia the IQ drops by ~50% Also you don't visit Wikipedia from a server or something, those are indeed Desktop systems.

http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm

On Wikipedia Linux is ~3.3%, iOs 3.5%, Mac 8.15% and Windows 78.7%

Thanks for the measure. That would suggest OS X is indeed quite more popular overall. As for Linux Ubuntu rocks.

[droidhacker]

I find this a good measure, but you don't get all those FaceBook junkies etc. Only people who actual visit Wikipedia to look up stuff. Which most people do at work, since without Wikipedia the IQ drops by ~50% Also you don't visit Wikipedia from a server or something, those are indeed Desktop systems.

http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm

On Wikipedia Linux is ~3.3%, iOs 3.5%, Mac 8.15% and Windows 78.7%

Those numbers are very far off from a market share representation. For example, if apple phone is at 3.56% (note that they break them down as far as phone, tablet, mp3player go), then Linux *MUST* be greater than 3.56% since it includes ANDROID. Android has a bigger market share than apple (in terms of phones, specifically) by about 3.5:1.

Most analysis of market share for desktop operating systems are based on actual sales numbers (whether with a new computer, or boxed software). Now unfortunately, desktop linux has EXTREMELY few actual sales -- there was a brief surge as a result of netbooks shipping with various crippled linux, but everybody else downloads and installs for free, literally no way to track these. Websites are also a notoriously unreliable way to track operating system usage since different websites attract different kinds of people, and on top of that, the user-agent doesn't REALLY say what operating system you're running. Many people alter their user-agent to trick hostile websites.

In the end, the only way to determine the actual user-base would be to break into everybody's homes and offices and ACTUALLY COUNT THEM.

[movieman]

Besides, if you use your keyboard to launch an application, you don't need to care about the categories.

When your answer to 'starting applications with your GUI is difficult' is 'use the keyboard to start the application'.... you're doing something wrong.

[droidhacker]

Actually, Gnome 3 has only one bar instead of two, is lighter on the options, uses less RAM, stays more out of the way etc. in comparison to Gnome 2.

What are you smoking? Hit that button in the top left corner and see how much of your screen gets used. That's right... ALL of it. Less RAM? Wow.... not really, no. In fact FAR FAR MORE. A couple of tiny little bars don't interfere with what's on the screen. The big ugly mess that blows over everything *DOES*.

[droidhacker]

This post is so stupid and hyperbolic I can't even begin to describe it. Why am I a tard for liking gnome 3? GET OVER YOURSELF you self-centered prick. And gnome 3 is designed to stay out of your way and let you focus on the task at hand, thats the whole fucking point behind gnome-shell's design.

Well, they did a REALLY BAD JOB of it, if that was the point.

By default gnome-shell is one of the most minimalistic DE's out there, it takes up less space than the default gnome 2 setup... How is space being wasted by uselessness? Two bars on the top and bottom in the era of widescreen monitors is "uselessness". You can say a lot of things about gnome 3 but its certainly not "in your face" and "distracting"

It takes up the WHOLE FUCKING SCREEN!!!!!

If you are scanning through thousands of icons you are doing it wrong, use the damn search. And your "frequently used" apps belong on the dock, thats what its there for.

My frequently used 50-or-so applications don't fit on a dock.

[droidhacker]

Compositing is already optional, just use the fallback mode. And the "pretty", or "bling bling" as I call it, while not directly useful, it's a great factor for new, non-power, users (people just like pretty things...).

Yes, but fallback HAS been crippled (lost the "system" button...), and is being phased out. Basically, its "all about the shell".

I assume your talking about the activities screen. If that's the case, you're right, but your solution is not the best. Instead of using less screen space, you should be able to increase/decrease the icon's and button's size. Personally, I think the size is perfect and I'm using a 1080p screen.

Sounds like you're using it on a television. Try a monitor.

Hrrr....I think you're not using gnome-shell :S For example I launch firefox with 7 key strokes (Window button, f, i, r, e, f, Enter) or with 3 mouse movements and 2 mouse clicks (probably more with a small screen), and even with 1 mouse movement and 1 mouse click if you have firefox in the dock, which is almost the same as your "frequently used" category.

You're right, I'm NOT using it... it is unusable. I tried. VERY HARD. It is simply inadequate.
And holy s**t, 7 key strokes? That not seem excessive to you? You are literally spelling it out to get it.... personally, I'd be happier just slamming the command out in a terminal window.... "firefox&<enter>", then you don't have to deal with the mess. Sure, 2 mouse clicks and 2 movements, but did you notice how **FAR** you have to move your mouse?

Have you ever heard of Alt-Tab?

Alt-tab is fine if you have 2 or 3 windows open. Not fine if you have 20 or 30.

And I think you can see the open programs in your dock. And their bloated mess (the activities screen I guess) is really great for mouse users because the icons are quite big.

Mouse is a high precision device, you don't need a huge target to hit. This would be an advantage to a TABLET or SMARTPHONE (or TV via Wii controller...), but ignores everyone using desktops or laptops.

You probably have a small screen or a lot of programs open at the same time. If it's the latest, then put your programs into several workspaces.

I actually use TWO 24" monitors. Gnome-shell also completely ignores the multiple-monitor use-case, but I'll let that one slide due to still being in development. I do use a LOT of software concurrently, and do sometimes use multiple workspaces, but they bring in additional inconveniences. Switching between workspaces -- remembering which workspace to switch to....

By the way, your solution is junk, because it will take permanent space from the display. You don't see Areo, Aqua, KDE, *box with 2 bars don't you?

gnome-panel didn't REQUIRE 2 bars!!!!!
You could put your application's list on the same bar as your main menu!

What gnome-panel did is it provided the FLEXIBILITY to lay out your panel[s] in the manner that you wanted. If you don't like having 2 panels, THEN PUT EVERYTHING ON ONE!!!!

Hrrr.....I don't recall having this problem, but I don't think your solution is the best. Instead of ".." button, why not a "up arrow" button and use Ctrl+"Up arrow" as a keyboard shortcut.

Same thing.... I don't care what the button looks like, just that its there with the necessary functionality.

Honestly I don't understand your problem here, but in gnome 3.2, the activities screen has the categories listed on the right side. Besides, if you use your keyboard to launch an application, you don't need to care about the categories.

Gnome-panel *isn't meant* to launch applications with your keyboard, and if your description of HOW you launch applications with a keyboard is any indication, it is inadequate to the task to begin with -- better off with a terminal window.

As far as the categories..... yes, RIGHT side. The menu is activated from the LEFT side. That means that you need to go to the far left, activate the menu, then switch modes, then go all the way over to the RIGHT side, then move back to somewhere in the middle to actually select the application.

I don't know or care if they have or have not removed the categories yet, but that is definitely one of the things on their to-do list.

[disi]

Those numbers are very far off from a market share representation. For example, if apple phone is at 3.56% (note that they break them down as far as phone, tablet, mp3player go), then Linux *MUST* be greater than 3.56% since it includes ANDROID. Android has a bigger market share than apple (in terms of phones, specifically) by about 3.5:1.

Most analysis of market share for desktop operating systems are based on actual sales numbers (whether with a new computer, or boxed software). Now unfortunately, desktop linux has EXTREMELY few actual sales -- there was a brief surge as a result of netbooks shipping with various crippled linux, but everybody else downloads and installs for free, literally no way to track these. Websites are also a notoriously unreliable way to track operating system usage since different websites attract different kinds of people, and on top of that, the user-agent doesn't REALLY say what operating system you're running. Many people alter their user-agent to trick hostile websites.

In the end, the only way to determine the actual user-base would be to break into everybody's homes and offices and ACTUALLY COUNT THEM.

Maybe Android has no Wikipedia 'app'? I have no smart phone, it can only take/make calls and send sms...

[movieman]

Honestly, my solution is what I always dreamed gnome would be someday. It feels like the evolutionary step where Gnome should have gone, rather than the revolutionary Gnome 3 misstep.

Indeed, that looks like it might actually be usable. Which makes me wonder why they're pushing a tablet interface as the default, rather than something that actually looks like what desktop users are used to.

However, what are the odds of those extensions continuing to work and not being broken on a regular basis since they're not cool enough for the Gnome devs?

[droidhacker]

Heh.. I agree.. I don't think the old Gnome 2.x / KDE 3.x models scale up at all.. Sure, it might be great for somebody who runs a few terminals and a web browser, but it's not uncommon for PCs to have over 250 games installed these days...

Actually, that's precisely WHY gnome-shell is such a failure. BECAUSE you have so many things installed, YOU NEED to categorize them properly. If they haven't yet, it IS a future-plan to remove the categories. If you have 250 games installed and use the OLD gnome, you hit APPLICATIONS --> GAMES --> ADVENTURE GAMES --> {select from 15 advanture games}. If you have 15 games installed, you hit APPLICATIONS --> GAMES --> {select from 15 games}. There is a heirarchy of categories as deep as you like.

A lot of the people complaining sound like they just want to run Gnome 2.x... So just let them run Gnome 2.x, I really don't care..

Not really like that. I like advancement, if it actually improves something.
What's a better date.... a brand new pig wearing lipstick and crotchless panties (I'm talking about the barnyard variety), or a 115 pound comp-sci M.A. nerd chick with C-cups and ZERO concept of fashion? Gnome-shell = the former, gnome-panel = the latter.

There will always be those who want to clutch onto the old.. I know some people who still run fluxbox and Solaris... But the industry itself has long since moved on...

What we're complaining about isn't advancement in and of itself, its changing things FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE rather than to actually improve something. Gnome-shell has gone seriously backwards in terms of usability. If the thing was usable, I WOULD USE IT. Unfortunately, it is not.

As far as people's needs for a taskbar, that is arguable. Psychology has long proven that the more ways people divide their attention across unrelated tasks, the less efficient they become in getting work done compared to if they focused on one task at a time. This has been proven again and again and again since the 1960s.. Anybody who has ever tried to do some coding while trying to answer instant messages at the same time knows exactly what I mean. Anybody who has ever tried to text message while driving a car will know exactly what I mean.. Computers are getting so fast now that people spend less and less time waiting on the computer to do things, so they shouldn't be multi-tasking as much as has been needed in the past. The multi-tasking mess that Bill Gates created will most likely just go away but it's unsurprising that some people want to clutch onto it because it's probably how they've been using a computer their entire lives.

Having multiple applications running simultaneously isn't about multitasking. Multitasking is something that happens in the background -- you set some process to compile a kernel and then move on to something else. While you're doing that something else, your kernel continues to compile. Humans can't multitask, and this is a fact. Neither can computers for that matter (lets consider multiple cores to be individual computers) -- they have to switch between processes. They only SEEM to multitask because they switch between those different processes so fast that you can't see it happening.

Having multiple applications open at the same time doesn't allow you to truly multitask. It allows you to switch between different tasks conveniently.

Let me give you an example of why this is so important;
If I'm developing some piece of software, there are presumably some set of functions that it must perform. In one window, I have the document describing exactly how it is to work (I reference that as needed). In another window, I have a text editor where I am actually working on the code, 3rd window, I have a terminal where I COMPILE the code as I make changes, 4th window, I use for TESTING the code each time it is compiled. 5th window is communications with others I'm working on the project with. Note that the 6th window has that kernel that I was compiling in the background, another window is a video recorder capturing from a TV tuner -- going to watch that later.... etc.

Now.... at a certain threshold, it becomes impractical to use alt-tab for switching between those, and the overview mode makes things impossible to distinguish. Besides, I don't want to keep chasing all over the screen several times and issuing a dozen mouse clicks just because I want to switch between the compile window and the test window.... I'd much rather just hit the right one with ONE click by hitting the proper spot on the task bar.