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It's Easy To Guess What Angers GNOME Users

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  • Ok, this is officially the best troll thread here in Phoronix. Great going, Michael, 10/10!

    Gnome Shell is lovely, I'm a power user and I love it. Haters gonna hate! Go back to windows, we don't need you anway.

    Comment


    • Gnome Shell not so bad...

      I really don't understand why people hate gnome shell so much. After a week or so of using it I realized that it supports power users just as well as noobs... When used properly, it just stays out of the way, and lets you focus on using your computer to work, play, or whatever. I used to spend hours configuring each new version of gnome, kde, xfce, etc. to provide easy access to the launchers that I needed, setting up themes, panels, etc. With gnome shell I feel that this is unnecessary (OK, and difficult to some extent), since virtually every piece of functionality is easily accessible via the keyboard.

      Almost every complaint regarding Gnome Shell is (in some form or another) that it is not Gnome 2. Well, it isn't. Like any radically new user interface, it takes a little time to get used to. Instead of figuring out how to do the things that were possible in Gnome 2, figure out how to use your computer to do the things that it was intended for. The desktop environment is really there to allow this, and if you are spending too much time using it then it was probably not well designed in the first place. Give it a chance, let yourself like it, and I think that you will.

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      • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
        Ok, this is officially the best troll thread here in Phoronix. Great going, Michael, 10/10!
        hilarious. lol.

        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
        Gnome Shell is lovely, I'm a power user and I love it. Haters gonna hate! Go back to windows, we don't need you anway.
        What does Windows have to do with users that don't like gnome-shell?? (hint: absolutely nothing!)

        I don't really like gnome-shell, although i am a gnome 3 user (G3 + compiz). The thought of switching to Windows is laughable to me. (as i am a long time linux user, almost 10years) and not a Windows user aside from at work. But i also wouldn't consider myself a gnome-shell hater ~ it's easier to just disable it, and customize my own desktop, rather than wasting my time using gS or hating on it

        I'm glad Gnome 3 can still be used with other WMs and compositors.

        cheerz

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jedipottsy View Post
          Yes in an ideal world computers should never be shutdown. However we dont live in a perfect world, and suspend doesnt work on every machine, and even if it does, it doesnt make sense. Computers boot quick enough as it is, especially with systemd.
          Completely agree, even OSX, which is considered by most people a DE for dumb people (not saying they are...), have the option to shutdown/restart/suspend the PC. In fact, that's 1 of the extensions I use for gnome-shell.

          Originally posted by Jedipottsy View Post
          But as it stands switching between apps is a joke in gnome shell. Its impossible to tell just from a quick glance whats currently running or even how to switch to them. Instead its hidden behind alt+tab/alt+` (stupidest thing ever btw) or in the activity menu. Which means everytime someone needs to switch they need to wrestle with the keyboard or go into a menu system to get an expose type feature. And if theres multiple desktops running multiple apps this is a mess. A dock or taskbar is simple to use and it works.
          Again, I completely agree. If you look at OSX, the default setting of the dock is to be always visible, because of the new users. As the user evolve in the DE's usage, he might want to save some space, so he will auto-hide the dock. As a final step of the evolution, the user can use 3 kind of shortcuts: trackpad shortcut, screen shortcut and keyboard shortcut. Windows 7 and Gnome 2 have all those steps of evolution (but with a taskbar), but gnome-shell misses the first two.

          Originally posted by Jedipottsy View Post
          Now thats not to say completely get rid of gnome shell. I dont think thats going to happen. But it would make sense to offer a dual desktop, or even offer a power user extension pack which gives a dual desktop mode. The default could be shell as it stands, and a power extension pack to revert to a gnome 2-esque metaphor.
          They shouldn't divide their resources to make to 2 DE designs, but instead keep the fallback mode and make it stable. Eventually, gnome-shell will take care of those problems that are mentioned in this thread (I hope for their own good).

          Comment


          • Some short thoughts about what I don't like, no rant

            I'm a power user using computer to do actual work, I have my workflow which is fast, rational and suites me best. I'm using fixed workspace count - each for every project I'm working on and a couple more. I know exactly to which WS to switch to get into work for every project. I usually do that using superswitcher (pressing the same super button and clicking on number or at lower panel in the switcher), as I have 8GB of RAM, I'm restarting computer very rare, that way I don't forget things to be done and I don't have to remember that. I'm using multiple applets, like sensors applet, sysmon, netspeed, hamster, clipper and more.

            Why I don't like gnome shell is:
            * unlike gnome2 I can't take a look at panel with small applets to see the behavior of system, network speed, my thinkpad harddrive sensor, cpu/gpu/hdd temperatures cpu usage, cpu freqency and stuff like that, now I have all that in my upper right corner. Easy, take a look and you know what your computer is doing, not a rocket science. One may wonder why, well sysmon basically is there to check hard drive activity for background / batch tasks, cpu usage and stuff, some apps hang and then I see that immediately, network speed is to check connection usage on every of interfaces (I'm always connected to public and internal network and have routes set up), there is force app kill applet, which is needed sometimes, etc. For me - quite needed stuff and a nice extra.

            *switching between apps is a joke, I never use alt tab because I have a lot of apps open in every workspace, alt tab is used to switch between previous and current task only, swirching to apps I'm using superswitcher which shows all tasks in small nice window, it's even better than taskbar, but there are time when I'm using taskbar as well. People who use handful of apps at the same time, like browser, maybe terminal, skype, won't never get why it's important to have an overview of apps running in the system, in gnome shell scale feature won't really cut, because it's big and more apps opened makes them smaller and harder to see, in superswitcher and taskbar all is the same size, I don't have to focus on big, smaller, small and tiny things to distinguish tasks from each other. Dock is not usable as well, it has all apps opened, it won't work for me, example: I have firefox profiles for each project, couple of windows per workspace and then dock show em all, how to understand easily which is which, say for 8 firefoxes? No good way.

            * workspace management is for kids, as I said I have a project for every WS and I have them strictly defined, I know that 3rd is for project B and when I need I instantly switch to that and start my work whether it's empy or not. I'm not working in all the projects in all the time, so some of them might be empty. In gnome-shell I can't do that because there are ws on demand, I can't really get how I can use that for my case, also I can't guarantee that WS 7 (the last one is for my own tings), because I can't open 7 WS right away. This is distracting to a power user. Also I don't get how people work with workspaces on demand, I mean how they structure their work. If that works for them - good.

            Fallback is crippled, applets won't be updated and so on, so that is not what gnome2 is now, that is not an alternative.

            There are some extensions and skype integration and stuff, maybe one day there will be things I like, I hope.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
              Ok, this is officially the best troll thread here in Phoronix. Great going, Michael, 10/10!

              Gnome Shell is lovely, I'm a power user and I love it. Haters gonna hate! Go back to windows, we don't need you anway.
              Gnome shell isn't Linux, but just some piece of software. You could recommend them moving to KDE or something first. As for troll thread it seems Phoronix loves a lot such threads. One time stupid and invalid conclusions from benchmarks another time some os x and bsd lover article where he wants to teach Linux users what should they do about licensing etc.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kirurgs View Post
                In gnome-shell I can't do that because there are ws on demand, I can't really get how I can use that for my case, also I can't guarantee that WS 7 (the last one is for my own tings), because I can't open 7 WS right away. This is distracting to a power user. Also I don't get how people work with workspaces on demand, I mean how they structure their work. If that works for them - good.
                Workspace on demand is not the problem. The problem is saving your window/workspace setting when you log off/shutdown/restart.

                Edit:
                Originally posted by Kirurgs View Post
                ...in gnome shell scale feature won't really cut, because it's big and more apps opened makes them smaller and harder to see, in superswitcher and taskbar all is the same size...
                For that problem, I have a possible solution for new users and power users:
                1) add the app icon and name near the scaled window (so new users can associate the icon to the application);
                2) when searching in the activities screen, add the opened windows result above the applications result, and used a small icon with a number to identify the workspace where the window is. For example, by typing 'Firefox', you would have at the top the opened window result with 8 icons of firefox, each with a number, and below those results, you would have the applications result.

                The only problem I see with 2) is when you have multiple windows in the same workspace.
                Last edited by ludovic.silvestre; 10-21-2011, 10:45 AM.

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                • Actually, to continue constructive debate, I would suggest that
                  a) activities, shown by super key, could be divided into at least two sections, for instance, pressing super, will load default layout with search, but pressing super + x, will search through opened apps. search result could be divided into WS which will be identified by WS name. Superswitcher have this sort of feature to search through window titles

                  b) also it would be good if dock could show apps opened on currently opened WS, make it a preference option.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kirurgs View Post
                    Actually, to continue constructive debate, I would suggest that
                    a) activities, shown by super key, could be divided into at least two sections, for instance, pressing super, will load default layout with search, but pressing super + x, will search through opened apps. search result could be divided into WS which will be identified by WS name. Superswitcher have this sort of feature to search through window titles
                    Are you talking about soomething like this -> http://www.notgeeklycorrect.com/wp-c...erswitcher.png.
                    If that's the case, gnome-shell already does something similar with Alt+Tab, although it doesn't show all information right away, nor have the same organization. But let me ask you a question: when you want to switch to an app in another workspace, do you think "I want to switch to Firefox in Workspace 5" or "I want to go to Workspace 5 to see Firefox"? If you answered the last one, then Alt+Tab should be as you said. Otherwise, gnome-shell does the right thing, first show a list of applications, then show the applications in all workspace (press down arrow to get the list). Their problem is that they don't identify the app's workspace, that's why I suggested a little icon with a number.

                    Originally posted by Kirurgs View Post
                    b) also it would be good if dock could show apps opened on currently opened WS, make it a preference option.
                    I don't agree, but I also don't understand why you would want that (give a use case?). Anyway, the activities screen should show all information that the user can have. The dock shows all opened application (and favorites) because the middle section show the opened applications for the selected workspace. If the dock show the same information as the middle section, you loose information (the opened applications in the other workspaces).

                    Comment


                    • How?

                      Originally posted by ninez View Post
                      I don't really like gnome-shell, although i am a gnome 3 user (G3 + compiz). The thought of switching to Windows is laughable to me. (as i am a long time linux user, almost 10years) and not a Windows user aside from at work. But i also wouldn't consider myself a gnome-shell hater ~ it's easier to just disable it, and customize my own desktop, rather than wasting my time using gS or hating on it

                      I'm glad Gnome 3 can still be used with other WMs and compositors.

                      cheerz
                      Could you please give us a hint on how to do it or a link where it is explained? I'm right now trying xfce and lxde, but while I think they're not bad, they doesn't convince me.
                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                        Problem is that they crippled the Gnome-Panel. A lot of the configurability of it is gone. I can't even slide my applets anymore, it is ridiculous.
                        What do you mean by this? You can add more applets, and move them about the panel. You have to press the Alt key while right clicking to toggle this (there also used to be a bug that affected the Fallback mode in the versions that Fedora 15 shipped that made it so this would not work if you had num lock, caps lock, or scroll lock on, but this has been fixed upstream). It is true that you can no longer randomly place applets, with them either having the be grouped on the sides of the screen or the centre, but the reasons for this are sound and in many ways this is actually easier to configure.

                        Please read these three links if you are going to keep making statements like this:
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Panel
                        http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/20...ve-gnome-panel!
                        http://funsurf-blog.blogspot.com/201...e-2-forks.html

                        The truth of the matter is that the Fallback mode is just as good or better than the old panel. All the old official Gnome applets have been ported. If you do not like the Shell and preferred Gnome 2.x, just use the Fallback. It is as simple as that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                          Browser user-agent.
                          Hacking user agent string in firefox.
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAinn...eature=related

                          It doesn't matter. All systems are vulnerable as all get out and it's all SQL injection and python. They'll jail pc's like a phone with the efi and UEFI which no matter what people want to try to present that as is simply a dongle and boot code just like the PS/3 on pc. UEFI's need to stop rootkitting is about as sincere as the need to stop online gambling money laundering. The ways that work work and nobody root kits beause it's just not necessary unless you're looking for total control over another persons computer without any way for them to get out of it. And the only people interested in that is INTEL which will bring up network independantly of the operating system. Will assign host name and put your computer on the internet will expand netbios into the system bios. Will continue towards an industry standard of making systems wake on lan with an active ethernet connection. The only thing is it will go just like phones. They will be able to be waked, put on internet without ever turning on any lights.

                          As long as the system has some sort of sql or some sort of python it can and will be controllable remotely. And systems with UEFI won't ship with the code to allow them to boot. And your system will be remote brickable just like a iphone or a car with a map system gps. And the people working on gnome are not retards who have no idea what they are doing. They are simply infiltrated with people who work on the projects with their own goals and their own ideas and their own needs. Gnome 3 is simply a break down of the community crowd sourcing with people who lie by ommision or lie by proxy or derail until things go the way they want them to go. It's the linux communities willingness to respect these types of people that will either destroy it or taint it till it's as bad as windows and as easily hackable without leaving any traces as apples. Because the people making the stuff are the people hacking it. Because having gps coordinates of a listening or camera device anywhere on the planet is something people want. And just because your linux box doesn't have a gps you still have to input your coordinates on the planet in a round about way to get system time updaters and weather apps and travel map apps.

                          It doesn't matter if 3/4's of the gnome team are ignorant in the dark useful idiots or not. What matters is once you're fucking linux box is bricked you're going to have no damn way to get to your logs to find out who the fuck did it so they don't even give a shit about screwing over system logging capability. They just want that goddamn uefi and that goddamn netbios working through the hard coded system instead of the system software.
                          Last edited by Hephasteus; 10-21-2011, 03:09 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kirurgs View Post
                            Some short thoughts about what I don't like, no rant

                            I'm a power user using computer to do actual work, I have my workflow which is fast, rational and suites me best. I'm using fixed workspace count - each for every project I'm working on and a couple more.
                            Gnome Shell doesn't fit this workflow. However, the developers are considering designs with fixed workspace layouts, so you may wish to add your voice to the mailing list and bugtracker, explain your workflow and make sure future versions of Gnome Shell are a better fit.

                            In the meanwhile, Ubuntu Unity is a great alternative that builds on Gnome 3 and supports fixed workspaces (if you are using Ubuntu). KDE might also fit the bill but that's a much larger change to swallow (different applications, different looks, different mentality).

                            Gnome shell isn't Linux, but just some piece of software.
                            And Linux isn't a piece of software? I thought it was a kernel, which is - by definition - software. I could be wrong, though.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                              What do you mean by this? You can add more applets, and move them about the panel. You have to press the Alt key while right clicking to toggle this (there also used to be a bug that affected the Fallback mode in the versions that Fedora 15 shipped that made it so this would not work if you had num lock, caps lock, or scroll lock on, but this has been fixed upstream). It is true that you can no longer randomly place applets, with them either having the be grouped on the sides of the screen or the centre, but the reasons for this are sound and in many ways this is actually easier to configure.

                              Please read these three links if you are going to keep making statements like this:
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Panel
                              http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/20...ve-gnome-panel!
                              http://funsurf-blog.blogspot.com/201...e-2-forks.html

                              The truth of the matter is that the Fallback mode is just as good or better than the old panel. All the old official Gnome applets have been ported. If you do not like the Shell and preferred Gnome 2.x, just use the Fallback. It is as simple as that.
                              I've noticed a lot of people that try fallback never figured out that they have to use the alt + right click to customize the panel, so they just scream that gnome-panel has been ruined and run away lol.

                              It is admittedly kind of dumb that they changed it so you have to use the alt key + right click, its not very discoverable and its a seemingly pointless change. (same with the default system menu where you need to hit alt to see the shutdown option, luckily that one is easily fixed with an extension).

                              I agree fallback is a good solution and does not deserve the hate its gotten. Its super similar to gnome 2 and even has some improvements. You can still use compiz ect.. with it. I also think people are making a way to big of a deal about how gnome is "killing" gnome 2. If gnome-shell or gnome-fallback are not acceptable for you XFCE is about as close to gnome 2 you can get, and its a little more light weight. There are plenty of good choices for gnome 2 users, its not the end of the world.
                              Last edited by bwat47; 10-21-2011, 03:06 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                                I've noticed a lot of people that try fallback never figured out that they have to use the alt + right click to customize the panel, so they just scream that gnome-panel has been ruined and run away lol.

                                It is admittedly kind of dumb that they changed it so you have to use the alt key + right click, its not very discoverable and its a seemingly pointless change. (same with the default system menu where you need to hit alt to see the shutdown option, luckily that one is easily fixed with an extension).

                                I agree fallback is a good solution and does not deserve the hate its gotten. Its super similar to gnome 2 and even has some improvements. You can still use compiz ect.. with it. I also think people are making a way to big of a deal about how gnome is "killing" gnome 2. If gnome-shell or gnome-fallback are not acceptable for you XFCE is about as close to gnome 2 you can get, and its a little more light weight. There are plenty of good choices for gnome 2 users, its not the end of the world.
                                Holy crap, thanks for the Alt + right click thing! The shutdown thing is just plain stupid.

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