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  • #16
    I normally use kde on opensuse and as a de it seems very stable. Runs great on both catalyst and intel graphics drivers for me.

    That said if you talking about kde apps, I have had many issuses. Amarok has been very buggy for me. When working its my fav music player but if it breaks dramatically with new versions thats a problem. Choqok, which I dont think is offical kde but is the default twitter client in opensuse and other kde distros, has been buggy to an extent that helps makes the kde expiriance look bad. I've had many issues with korganizer, rekonq and other apps. Usability wise kwallet sucks. I think I read somewhere about it being replaced. If so that would be long overdue.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
      Just for a bit of balance, I'm going to call posters on the faux KDE hate.
      For the record: I don't hate KDE.

      Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
      KDE works perfectly for me with the Xorg Radeon drivers (r600g), across a number of different machines.
      How can it work "perfectly" when there are those open bugreports? For me it only works well enaugh. I probably would still recommend XFCE for a less annoying desktop.

      Graphically it is mostly fine with r600g, yet the OpenGL compositing as well as the GLES compositing feel a bit slow compared with XRender compositing. But I guess with 4.8 this will be fixed.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
        How can it work "perfectly" when there are those open bugreports? For me it only works well enaugh. I probably would still recommend XFCE for a less annoying desktop.
        Lots of bugs are really hardware-specific. Someone using one hardware and software setup may have them while someone using a very similar setup may not.

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        • #19
          I don't really understand how this thread could become so off-topic, but well I comment nevertheless

          Originally posted by nepwk View Post
          Apparently they're only interested in having a usable desktop experience with the Nvidia blob. It seems nice from the screenshots, but when you try to use it, you realize that they never gave a damm about testing Kwin with the oh-so-popular Radeon drivers, or even the AMD blob. I always go back and try it about once a year, and it's always crap.
          I am sure that you are aware of the fact that one of the KWin developers is also an active contributor to the radeon driver, right? You are also aware that the maintainer of KWin is using the r600g on his productive environment and you are probably also aware of the fact that the OpenGL ES 2 port has been developed on nouveau and that the NVIDIA blob does not even support that.

          The only true part of your comment is that we have hardly any support for the ATI blob as we consider our time best spent by improving support for the free drivers. Also the ATI blob is the only driver which does not support anything more modern than OpenGL 1 for Compositors.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
            the OpenGL ES 2 port has been developed on nouveau and that the NVIDIA blob does not even support that.
            It does via oGL 4.1 support. It is one of the specs of 4.1 and the blobs have supported it for a while.

            OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
            OpenGL renderer string: GeForce GTX 580/PCI/SSE2
            OpenGL version string: 4.2.0 NVIDIA 285.05.09
            OpenGL extensions:
            GL_ARB_base_instance, GL_ARB_blend_func_extended,
            GL_ARB_color_buffer_float, GL_ARB_compatibility,
            GL_ARB_compressed_texture_pixel_storage, GL_ARB_conservative_depth,
            GL_ARB_copy_buffer, GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float, GL_ARB_depth_clamp,
            GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend,
            GL_ARB_draw_indirect, GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex,
            GL_ARB_draw_instanced, GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility,
            Last edited by deanjo; 10-10-2011, 03:02 PM.

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            • #21
              and what about EGL? That NVIDIA supports the GLES API in the 4.x OpenGL drivers is rather irrelevant for KWin's usecases and that extension is meant to ease the porting from GLES to desktop and not the other way around.

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              • #22
                I don't think that KDE developers ignore their users. Sometimes to get rid of severe bugs, one just needs to stop depending on a foreign project. For example, by no longer using XScreenSavers, the KWin developer fixed a bug where KWin crashes with some Intel cards. They even made a poll to see if users will support the idea that KWin will soon have it's implementation for the screen lock that is incompatible with XScreenSavers! With the result being that only 2% of the voters claimed either they would complain or move to a different desktop.

                http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...screen-locker/
                http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...in-kde-plasma/

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
                  I am sure that you are aware of the fact that one of the KWin developers is also an active contributor to the radeon driver, right? You are also aware that the maintainer of KWin is using the r600g on his productive environment and you are probably also aware of the fact that the OpenGL ES 2 port has been developed on nouveau and that the NVIDIA blob does not even support that.
                  Wow, that's epic fail logic. A Radeon driver dev works on KDE, therefore KDE works well on AMD hardware. Right. If that's the best excuse you've got, maybe you ought to fire him and hire somebody else to help out with AMD support.

                  Here's my experience of KDE and AMD systems:

                  Phenom 9500 and HD3400 : sucks
                  Phenom II 940 and HD4650 : sucks
                  Athlon II laptop with HD4200 IGP: sucks
                  Llano laptop : sucks
                  Llano desktop : sucks

                  ...and yet Gnome was pretty much flawless the whole time with either driver. e17 was also decent the whole time, except for being a SEGFAULT-prone steaming turd in general.

                  Just for you, I'll let YOU pick out a KDE-centric distro, and I'll test it on any of those last 4 systems on the list, and then I'll let you know that it still has poor performance and stability. I'll file a bug for you in your bug tracker if you want.

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                  • #24
                    @nepwk, can you try this tweaks on your systems and see if they help? This is what I HAVE to do to get smooth desktop effects with my amd/ati hardware:

                    1) Turn off blur.
                    2) Turn off vsync in kwin
                    3) Turned off all oxygen animations (alt+f2 and type oxygen-settings and in widget style and window decorations tabs turn off animations)
                    4) Change graphics system to raster. Install kde-config-qt-graphicssystem in Kubuntu or find it on http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=129817. Then go to SystemSettings>Qt graphics system and change to raster. Log out and log back in and test. Desktop effects should be smoother and whole desktop should be much more resposive and faster (because of raster).
                    5) In KDE 4.7, to get smooth desktop effects with opensource driver I have also to uncheck "Use opengl2 shaders" in kwin.

                    I am very interesed in your test results because I have only one amd/ati system and this tweaks are mandatory for me since KDE 4.5.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nepwk View Post
                      Wow, that's epic fail logic. A Radeon driver dev works on KDE, therefore KDE works well on AMD hardware. Right. If that's the best excuse you've got, maybe you ought to fire him and hire somebody else to help out with AMD support.
                      Maybe you should re-read the post he was replying to (you know, your own post):

                      Originally posted by nepwk View Post
                      I'm going to have to agree with all of the KDE hate. [i]Apparently they're only interested in having a usable desktop experience with the Nvidia blob.[/b] It seems nice from the screenshots, but when you try to use it, you realize that they never gave a damm about testing Kwin with the oh-so-popular Radeon drivers, or even the AMD blob. I always go back and try it about once a year, and it's always crap.
                      (emphasis added)

                      The post was a perfectly valid reply to what you actually posted. If you had simply claimed that KDE didn't work well on AMD hardware, then your reply would be valid. But you made specific claims about the testing and goals, and they were factually incorrect.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by schnelle View Post
                        @nepwk, can you try this tweaks on your systems and see if they help? This is what I HAVE to do to get smooth desktop effects with my amd/ati hardware:

                        1) Turn off blur.
                        2) Turn off vsync in kwin
                        3) Turned off all oxygen animations (alt+f2 and type oxygen-settings and in widget style and window decorations tabs turn off animations)
                        4) Change graphics system to raster. Install kde-config-qt-graphicssystem in Kubuntu or find it on http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=129817. Then go to SystemSettings>Qt graphics system and change to raster. Log out and log back in and test. Desktop effects should be smoother and whole desktop should be much more resposive and faster (because of raster).
                        5) In KDE 4.7, to get smooth desktop effects with opensource driver I have also to uncheck "Use opengl2 shaders" in kwin.

                        I am very interesed in your test results because I have only one amd/ati system and this tweaks are mandatory for me since KDE 4.5.
                        Could you recommend specific versions of specific distros that you'd like me to test?

                        I do think that having to do that many tweaks reinforces the notion that KDE doesn't work well on AMD hardware.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                          Maybe you should re-read the post he was replying to (you know, your own post):

                          (emphasis added)

                          The post was a perfectly valid reply to what you actually posted. If you had simply claimed that KDE didn't work well on AMD hardware, then your reply would be valid. But you made specific claims about the testing and goals, and they were factually incorrect.
                          Way to miss the point. So maybe they all spend 80 hours a week testing KDE on AMD hardware. It must frustrate them to no end to spend so much time testing AMD hardware, and yet still have absolutely terrible performance. Maybe they should have a look at every other DE on the planet to see how they do it.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nepwk View Post
                            Way to miss the point. So maybe they all spend 80 hours a week testing KDE on AMD hardware. It must frustrate them to no end to spend so much time testing AMD hardware, and yet still have absolutely terrible performance. Maybe they should have a look at every other DE on the planet to see how they do it.
                            I am sorry that you do not have a pleasant computing experience with Plasma on AMD hardware. But you have to understand that others have a very pleasant and satisfying experience. As already pointed out in this thread it helps to fine tune your settings. This is something you have to try for yourself, the default settings are done in a way that suits most users.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by nepwk View Post
                              Way to miss the point. So maybe they all spend 80 hours a week testing KDE on AMD hardware. It must frustrate them to no end to spend so much time testing AMD hardware, and yet still have absolutely terrible performance. Maybe they should have a look at every other DE on the planet to see how they do it.
                              Do you have a point or are you going to change your argument every time, just so you can vent some more?

                              KDE the desktop environment doesn't have any problems whatsoever running on AMD hardware. Only KWin, the window manager does. Replace it with Compiz if you want, and keep using the rest of KDE. This is what (pre 3.0) GNOME does, anyway.

                              You do have a legitimate gripe, that KWin has had a bit of trouble with the FLOSS drivers in the past. The way you are going about it (whining, accusing, changing topics, refusing to try solutions offered by other people) is not terribly productive, though.

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                              • #30
                                You guys are hilarious, this is why distros don't take KDE seriously.

                                I really want to like KDE, it looks better than Gnome, the KDE application suite is better than Gnome, QT is better than GTK and the overall desktop experience is more polished.

                                However, to sit there and tell me that all 5 of my PCs that ran KDE poorly are "isolated incidents" is laughable. Even when it runs OK, it certainly doesn't run well. I actually ran Kubuntu for a while once, bit that was on a Pentium M machine with a IGP. That machine had slow graphics in general, but it was by far my best KDE experience.

                                If KDE took an objective look at themselves and made a real attempt to fix it's problems, then KDE might become the dominant DE, rather than an "alternative desktop choice".

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