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New GIMP Release Has Working Single-Window Mode

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  • #46
    Ah... I guess I expected something else from the description "[...] Has Working Single-Window Mode". I'll keep waiting.

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    • #47
      I'm using gimp 2.7.4~git (checked out today 17:30 CEST) and gimp is remembering the one window mode after closing gimp with one window mode enabled.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
        I mean if you hate the program so much as some people seem to do then just DON'T USE IT.
        That seems to be an increasingly common comment from FOSS developers. Likely to be followed a year or two later by questions like 'where did all our users go?'

        I've been using Gimp a lot in the last few weeks and even ignoring the things I complained about earlier it's just a horrible mess compared to 'pro' software I've used. For example, sometimes it picks the layer to edit based on what you click on the screen -- but often picking a layer above the one you expected it to pick so you have to move things around to get at the layer you want to edit -- other times it requires you to select the layer you want to edit and then click on part of that layer on the screen. Sometimes it shows a border around the image so I can actually select points outside the image when I'm creating a selection mask, other times it doesn't show a border around the image so I can't select points outside it and have to precisely, exactly hit the very edge pixel in order to ensure my mask is going to cover the entire area. I can edit the points in that selection until I close it, and then I can no longer edit them when I realise that one of them was one pixel out. Rotate layer crops the image to the old layer size unless you specifically enlarge the layer before rotating. Crop to selection doesn't work unless you selected a rectangle, otherwise you have to create an alpha channel.

        There are just so many awful gotchas in the UI that I'm sorely tempted to reboot into Windows and use Fusion instead in future even though that's designed for film and video instead of stills. Aside from having a sensible interface, the node-based editing is vastly superior to layers.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Cybolic View Post
          Ah... I guess I expected something else from the description "[...] Has Working Single-Window Mode". I'll keep waiting.
          That GIMP should start in single window mode as of 2.7.3. Those release notes are slightly dated.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            [...]I've been using Gimp a lot in the last few weeks and even ignoring the things I complained about earlier it's just a horrible mess compared to 'pro' software I've used. For example,

            sometimes it picks the layer to edit based on what you click on the screen -- but often picking a layer above the one you expected it to pick so you have to move things around to get at the layer you want to edit
            There's a layer stack in the dock ususally to the right. Selecting a layer by clicking pixels will be tricky in any program.

            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            other times it requires you to select the layer you want to edit and then click on part of that layer on the screen.
            Never experienced that - have you filed a bug-report?

            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            Sometimes it shows a border around the image so I can actually select points outside the image when I'm creating a selection mask, other times it doesn't show a border around the image so I can't select points outside it and have to precisely, exactly hit the very edge pixel in order to ensure my mask is going to cover the entire area.
            Control+Scroll to zoom out. It will show the border.

            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            I can edit the points in that selection until I close it, and then I can no longer edit them when I realise that one of them was one pixel out.
            You can save selections to channels, masks and so on, otherwise you can accustom yourself to toggling the selection edge so you can better see what you are doing. Otherwise, using layer masks is often the better choice.

            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            Rotate layer crops the image to the old layer size unless you specifically enlarge the layer before rotating.
            Set "Clipping" to "Adjust" in the rotate tool.

            Originally posted by movieman View Post
            Crop to selection doesn't work unless you selected a rectangle, otherwise you have to create an alpha channel.
            That might be, haven't run into that - I always work with an alpha channel until it's time to export.

            It sounds to me that GIMP isn't really the problem, but more you being unwilling to adjust your workflow - and/or you didn't read the manual.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by kayosiii View Post
              That GIMP should start in single window mode as of 2.7.3. Those release notes are slightly dated.
              I guess the package I'm using from the "mrw-gimp-svn" PPA was slightly too old. Good to hear that it should be working.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cybolic View Post
                There's a layer stack in the dock ususally to the right. Selecting a layer by clicking pixels will be tricky in any program.
                The problem is that at least to my recollection is that it doesn't matter which layer you have selected in the layer dialog the layer you click on is the one that moves. As a rule I don't mind this behaviour however if you have a layer that is mostly transparent then moving that layer can be incredibly difficult. What I would like to see is a modifer key for the move tool that forces it to move the currently selected layer. I could live with a toggle in the layer dialog

                Set "Clipping" to "Adjust" in the rotate tool.
                this should perhaps be the default.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by kayosiii
                  What I would like to see is a modifer key for the move tool that forces it to move the currently selected layer. I could live with a toggle in the layer dialog
                  In Gimp 2.6.11, that would be Shift. There is a toggle in the Move tool's Tool Options pane.

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                  • #54
                    Excellent *Mr Burns hands*...
                    Perhaps a status bar that would tell you the modifiers for the current tool would help the discovery of these features.

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                    • #55
                      EDIT: nevermind this post, I misread something.
                      Last edited by DaVince; 08-25-2011, 07:51 AM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by kayosiii
                        Perhaps a status bar that would tell you the modifiers for the current tool would help the discovery of these features.
                        For many tools it does, and the Move Tool's options pane does say (for me) to use Shift, but you're right -- it could be improved.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cybolic View Post
                          It sounds to me that GIMP isn't really the problem, but more you being unwilling to adjust your workflow - and/or you didn't read the manual.
                          No, the problem is that I expect software to behave in a sensible manner, and Gimp doesn't. Sure, there may be magic hidden options that can be used force it to work in a sensible manner, but it should do that by default; there are so many menus with so many choices many of which are far from obvious, that I'd rather just switch to a different program than have to figure out what bizarre choices the developers have made.

                          It's not as though I'm doing anything particularly complex, just combining a few images with scaling, rotation, color correction, some masking and some text. That should not be anywhere near as hard to do as Gimp makes it.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cybolic View Post
                            I guess the package I'm using from the "mrw-gimp-svn" PPA was slightly too old. Good to hear that it should be working.
                            Mine doesn't start in single window mode either.
                            fedora-gimp repo
                            It does, however, remember which mode you left it in when you return, which is appreciated.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by movieman View Post
                              No, the problem is that I expect software to behave in a sensible manner, and Gimp doesn't. Sure, there may be magic hidden options that can be used force it to work in a sensible manner, but it should do that by default; there are so many menus with so many choices many of which are far from obvious, that I'd rather just switch to a different program than have to figure out what bizarre choices the developers have made.

                              It's not as though I'm doing anything particularly complex, just combining a few images with scaling, rotation, color correction, some masking and some text. That should not be anywhere near as hard to do as Gimp makes it.
                              I have to reply just because I read these kinds of responses all the time. You get someone complaining about something being difficult to accomplish, and then someone who knows the program inside-and-out rejects their objections because everything they mentioned is possible with the program (as long as they do X, Y, Z, Q, P, and don't forget H, A, R, and D). Movieman is complaining about being able to do something in a program easily, which should be the goal of all programs. He's not complaining about not being able to do something at all. GIMP can do a lot of things, it's just that for some tasks it is easier to do them in other programs. GIMP devs need to consider the most common work flow and tasks that users need to accomplish. Then, you need to implement modes to carry out these tasks. Take the following example:

                              A user wants to remove red eye from a photo, so they can:
                              1. Use an editor which is very technical and advanced (and thus very powerful) and would allow a user to change all red colors in a specified area to shades of other colors, but the program lacks a mode/tool to allow easy red eye removal.
                              2. Use an editor which is very "simple" but also very easy-to-use which comes with a red eye-removal mode/tool.
                              3. Use an all-encompassing editor which has both powerful nitty-gritty modes/tools as well as easier, more average-user-friendly modes/tools for doing specific simple tasks.

                              I think that accounts for a lot of the issues GIMP faces, and if the devs can figure out the nicest way in which to fulfill both needs within the same program, that would be amazing.

                              Of course, making both advanced as well as simple tools be as intuitive and easy-to-use as possible should still be sought after.

                              So, instead of saying how something can be done, what should be discussed is a comparison of the two or more ways of doing a particular task. Where is GIMP on this easy vs. hard scale? Any time another program comes in the lead, and anytime someone has an idea on how to make things even easier, it should be discussed so it can be eventually implemented by anyone who can program who has an interest.

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