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Java SE 7 Finally Sees The Light Of Day

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JeanPaul145 View Post
    Java 7 is too little, too late. If you want a big boost in productivity, use Lisp.
    If you want a boost in productivity and are bound to the Java platform, use scala or possibly clojure.
    /flame
    Care to send me a link to the last website you wrote in Lisp?

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    • #17
      Last time I checked, OpenJDK couldn't even run Netbeans fully, which is kinda required to be anywhere near acceptable... I mean if you can't even create a jForm with freaking Netbeans < 7... But it can run jForms...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by talvik View Post
        One of the features of JSE7 is a new xrender pipeline for Java 2D.

        Will there be any benchmarks coming? Has anyone tested the new render pipeline?
        I hope there will be benchmarks; it should be quite interesting.

        In my opinion, XRender has a very bad reputation. Its operations are extremely high-latency on the Mesa graphics stack. Try running kwin with XRender backend, compared to OpenGL backend. There's no comparison -- OpenGL is way faster. And a compositing manager isn't much different than what Java2D would do; it's just some fancy animations, transparency, fades, etc. but it's still essentially a glossy 2D pipeline. But at least for r600g, XRender is horrible.

        Why did they even bother doing that work? Maybe XRender works well for the Nvidia binary, or fglrx, or something.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          I hope there will be benchmarks; it should be quite interesting.

          In my opinion, XRender has a very bad reputation. Its operations are extremely high-latency on the Mesa graphics stack. Try running kwin with XRender backend, compared to OpenGL backend. There's no comparison -- OpenGL is way faster. And a compositing manager isn't much different than what Java2D would do; it's just some fancy animations, transparency, fades, etc. but it's still essentially a glossy 2D pipeline. But at least for r600g, XRender is horrible.

          Why did they even bother doing that work? Maybe XRender works well for the Nvidia binary, or fglrx, or something.
          Xrender does work quite well with the NVIDIA blob. If I remember correctly, it works well with fglrx too.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            Last time I checked, OpenJDK couldn't even run Netbeans fully, which is kinda required to be anywhere near acceptable... I mean if you can't even create a jForm with freaking Netbeans < 7... But it can run jForms...
            When was the last time you checked? Was it 2 years ago on a distribution that used source code that was more than a year old? Time flies. IcedTea works wonderfully for me. I filed a bug report about the only issue I have encountered.

            Maybe you are thinking of open source flash replacements.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
              In my opinion, XRender has a very bad reputation. Its operations are extremely high-latency on the Mesa graphics stack. Try running kwin with XRender backend, compared to OpenGL backend. There's no comparison -- OpenGL is way faster. And a compositing manager isn't much different than what Java2D would do; it's just some fancy animations, transparency, fades, etc. but it's still essentially a glossy 2D pipeline. But at least for r600g, XRender is horrible.

              Why did they even bother doing that work? Maybe XRender works well for the Nvidia binary, or fglrx, or something.
              xrender's a 2d api, mesa should have nothing to do with it. Handled by the ddx.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                xrender's a 2d api, mesa should have nothing to do with it. Handled by the ddx.
                That's not the whole story, though. Modern hardware tends to leave out the 2D acceleration bits, and what is still there is typically faster to run on the 3D hardware anyway.

                So if your 2D API has to setup and use the entire 3D hardware anyway, it might make sense to consolidate that code together rather than splitting it out across multiple drivers.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RavFX View Post
                  PCGEN : "work" but lots of lists are totally bugged (like, no item in the item list, no spell in the spell list...)

                  Minecraft : Crashed at launch the last time I tried.
                  As of a half a year to a year ago I moved to OpenJDK for Minecraft because it worked better than Sun's official version for me.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
                    When was the last time you checked? Was it 2 years ago on a distribution that used source code that was more than a year old? Time flies. IcedTea works wonderfully for me. I filed a bug report about the only issue I have encountered.

                    Maybe you are thinking of open source flash replacements.
                    Fedora 15. Why do you think I'm talking about Java Script? Or do you mean the web applets? Why would you think about that when I'm talking about Netbeans?

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                    • #25
                      Can you fork this "open-source" java now or will Oracle hit you with a patent lawsuit as soon as you do that?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        Can you fork this "open-source" java now or will Oracle hit you with a patent lawsuit as soon as you do that?
                        Anyone can fork it, they only sue if you start making millions of dollars in revenue. There's no profit in going after anyone smaller.

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                        • #27
                          [Flamethrower: on]

                          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                          Anyone can fork it, they only sue if you start making millions of dollars in revenue. There's no profit in going after anyone smaller.
                          My point exactly.

                          Funny how the bedeviled Mono project is actually safer/more free than beloved Java. Then again, anyone who knows anything about Oracle understands that they are far bigger assholes than Microsoft could ever hope to be. Arguably far more dangerous, too, now that they control MySQL, Java, VirtualBox and OpenOffice.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                            My point exactly.

                            Funny how the bedeviled Mono project is actually safer/more free than beloved Java. Then again, anyone who knows anything about Oracle understands that they are far bigger assholes than Microsoft could ever hope to be. Arguably far more dangerous, too, now that they control MySQL, Java, VirtualBox and OpenOffice.
                            Microsoft has also been suing Android manufacturer's even without use of Mono. I tend to think that those lawsuits from MS would be even larger if they had gone that direction instead of using Java. But we'll never know, now.

                            Luckily, they no longer control OpenOffice at least.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                              Microsoft has also been suing Android manufacturer's even without use of Mono. I tend to think that those lawsuits from MS would be even larger if they had gone that direction instead of using Java. But we'll never know, now.
                              Python, they should have gone with python and a custom, high-performance runtime instead (they were working on one but the project doesn't look so active anymore). Too late for that now.

                              The patent situation in the mobile space has long surpassed the term "ridiculous". Everybody is suing everybody else and then some.

                              Luckily, they no longer control OpenOffice at least.
                              That's a good first step but the real problem is MySQL. It is so widely-used that there's no easy way out (ala LibreOffice) should Oracle decide to try something.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Python, they should have gone with python and a custom, high-performance runtime instead (they were working on one but the project doesn't look so active anymore). Too late for that now.
                                Is a high performance interpreter to Python realistic without create incompatibility in the language with the regular interpreter? Most similar language has similar performance (or slower)?

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