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KDE SC 4.6.2 Codename Is Dedicated To GNOME 3.0

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  • #16
    Originally posted by yotambien View Post
    You have to be kidding...
    Oh, I meant KDE devs.

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    • #17
      Talk is cheap...

      Originally posted by devius View Post
      If only they would find the time to fix kmail... and ktimetracker, and improve KWin's compositing performance on radeons, and all the multi monitor shortcomings it has and... etc.
      As they say: "Talk is cheap". Please provide links to bug reports about all these problems you have. That's the first step to getting the bug fixed. If there is no bug report developers might not know about the bug or might not have enough information to be able to fix it. As for the Radeon, All my computers and laptops have various Radeons and I don't have any problem with KWin performance with them, using the Free drivers that is.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by devius View Post
        I wish KDE developers would fix KWin's (notice that I said KWin and not radeon driver, as in "fix kwin", not "fix driver") bad performance on radeons. Don't tell me it's a problem in the drivers because every other 3D application I've tried runs as expected on my HD4200.
        I think this gets back to the old "assume you can do whatever you want within the spec" vs. "make extra effort to avoid fallbacks" debate, which probably won't be resolved in this thread.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
          Not true. When KDE4 arrived gnome fanbois were bitching it all the time. Even some gnome developers were doing the same. Now, it's completely opposite and KDE folks wishes Gnome to succeed. This is just great example of different mentality in mentioned camps.
          LOL. I don't know many KDE devs, because frankly I don't really care about KDE, it's not my kind of desktop. So I can't say anything about the mentality of KDE devs in general. But there's one vocal KDE dev I've heard of, Aaron Seigo, and he's always bad-mouthing GNOME. Even when there was an issue between Canonical and GNOME not so long ago, and thus having nothing to do with KDE, he took opportunity to once again go on the attack on GNOME. Apparently this guy does have some followers within the KDE community and you're probably one of them.

          So where does all this GNOME hate come from? I think this is all about envy. The major distros, i.e., Ubuntu and Fedora, have been shipping with GNOME as the default desktop for years now, and some people in the KDE community would not only like to see that changed, but think bad-mouthing the competition is an appropriate way to achieve that.

          I think it's very sad.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by monraaf View Post
            So where does all this GNOME hate come from? I think this is all about envy.
            KDE users don't envy Gnome at all. They just find Gnome is unable to fill their needs. And there is more then likely some resentment for Gnome users constantly calling down KDE users in the past because of QT's old licensing practice.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by monraaf View Post
              LOL. I don't know many KDE devs, because frankly I don't really care about KDE, it's not my kind of desktop. So I can't say anything about the mentality of KDE devs in general. But there's one vocal KDE dev I've heard of, Aaron Seigo, and he's always bad-mouthing GNOME. Even when there was an issue between Canonical and GNOME not so long ago, and thus having nothing to do with KDE, he took opportunity to once again go on the attack on GNOME. Apparently this guy does have some followers within the KDE community and you're probably one of them.
              Reading Aaron's posts and Gnome devs replies I wonder why he still cares about cooperation. The attitude in Gnome camp is just unfriendly. They're like people who live is some Vault (could be 13 if you like) and don't want to believe living in the outside world is possible. Even if some vault dweller goes out and returns with the news he's being exiled. The Vault overseer considers everything from the outside is bad.

              So where does all this GNOME hate come from? I think this is all about envy. The major distros, i.e., Ubuntu and Fedora, have been shipping with GNOME as the default desktop for years now, and some people in the KDE community would not only like to see that changed, but think bad-mouthing the competition is an appropriate way to achieve that.

              I think it's very sad.
              If this is true what you're writing then from where does all this KDE hatred is coming from? There are many distros which ships KDE as default - Kubuntu, OpenSuse, but you may be partially right. Personally, I don't like Gnome, because I consider some of its devs are morons and dictators*, I don't like Gnome still tributes Icaza's, many of Gnome devs don''t want to cooperate with others, I consider gtk sucks compared to Qt and I consider gnome shell is some strange experiment which turned out to be very hardly usable on desktops. I like to have configurable desktop and Gnome3 is far from this.

              *
              Unless it's related to eye sight issues, you shouldn't need to tweak a font. If you do, then something is wrong with
              the font and we need to fix the font.
              The quote from lwn. Who the hell they are to tell users what they should and shouldn't do with their systems?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by monraaf View Post
                So where does all this GNOME hate come from? I think this is all about envy. The major distros, i.e., Ubuntu and Fedora, have been shipping with GNOME as the default desktop for years now, and some people in the KDE community would not only like to see that changed, but think bad-mouthing the competition is an appropriate way to achieve that.
                I think it's a combination of several factors:

                - The reason for GNOME's existence is killing KDE, and this spirit still lives inside many of their developers
                - The sudden influx of noobs who think that GNOME is the only thing that exists, or should be allowed to exist, see the previous point
                - The whole issue about removing options

                Personally, I've been using KDE since the 1.1.2 days, and have never enjoyed the GNOME experience, which has always seemed like a bunch of non-integrated software randomly thrown together. This seems to be changing with GNOME3, which is a good thing.

                At the same time, the GNOME guys did some good work too, and have pushed the KDE camp to bring new features, which make KDE (in my opinion) the nicest complete desktop environment in existence (Mac OSX is slick, but I still cannot completely get used to it).

                Personally, I would be the happiest if the GNOME and KDE camps found a way to:

                1) Integrate all lower-level services through freedesktop.org, as happened with dbus and window manager hinting, and might hopefully happen with akonadi
                2) Make it easier to mix GTK and Qt applications. Only Qt guys care about this, which is why Qt apps look great in GNOME, while GTK looks like junk under KDE, see the point about killing KDE again. An easier way to develop cross-toolkit themes would be great

                Then everybody could live with what they prefer, and run the best apps they need. I prefer Qt-based apps when feasible, but I really like Inkscape, for example. This should be made more transparent, without raping me with the medieval GTK file dialog which doesn't even remember in which directory the program was started (the last time I tried it).

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                • #23
                  BTW, congrats to the GNOME camp, and may their growing pains be less painful than those of KDE 4!

                  There are some nice ideas behind GNOME shell, and new ideas are always good.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by monraaf View Post
                    So where does all this GNOME hate come from? I think this is all about envy.
                    You must be smoking crack. 2 points to consider:

                    1) What's there to envy? At no point in my years of using Linux has GNOME ever been close to having feature parity with KDE. Even now that 3.0 is released, KDE 4 has stabilized to 4.6 Why the hell would the front runner for the last 10 years be envious?

                    2) This a very old issue. There have been times when KDE users were content with using their DE and leaving it alone, and they were flat out taunted by GNOME people. KDE 3.5 was flat out better than the current GNOME version, so they STFU. As soon as 4.0 was released with some issues you had these idiots on every freakin website talking as much trash as they could type. Eventually KDE people got tired of hearing it and started trashing GNOME right back. Now all of a sudden GNOME people are crying bully. GTFOH!!! When 3.5 was flat out better they weren't so bold.

                    The hate comes from them talking too damn much.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                      Reading Aaron's posts and Gnome devs replies I wonder why he still cares about cooperation. The attitude in Gnome camp is just unfriendly. They're like people who live is some Vault (could be 13 if you like) and don't want to believe living in the outside world is possible. Even if some vault dweller goes out and returns with the news he's being exiled. The Vault overseer considers everything from the outside is bad.

                      If this is true what you're writing then from where does all this KDE hatred is coming from? There are many distros which ships KDE as default - Kubuntu, OpenSuse, but you may be partially right. Personally, I don't like Gnome, because I consider some of its devs are morons and dictators*, I don't like Gnome still tributes Icaza's, many of Gnome devs don''t want to cooperate with others, I consider gtk sucks compared to Qt and I consider gnome shell is some strange experiment which turned out to be very hardly usable on desktops. I like to have configurable desktop and Gnome3 is far from this.

                      *
                      The quote from lwn. Who the hell they are to tell users what they should and shouldn't do with their systems?
                      I loved that explanation. On the other side, there are lots of people who went to Arroyo too, and I'm one of these (I still use GNOME in a computer, I still like GNOME) who can see there are lots of options besides GNOME. However, the last time I used KDE was with Knoppix 5.x, I like more the lightweight solutions (being WM's, XFCE or LXDE).

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                      • #26
                        @monraaf I don't know where you see hate between Gnome and KDE devs. Some on both "sides" [1] might be frustrated and disappointed but that is hardly hate. And as you mentioned Aaron Seigo in specific it would be the reputable way to actually support your claims with links.

                        [1] Considering how many projects are under the KDE and the Gnome umbrella it is kinda generalising.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                          2) This a very old issue. There have been times when KDE users were content with using their DE and leaving it alone, and they were flat out taunted by GNOME people. KDE 3.5 was flat out better than the current GNOME version, so they STFU. As soon as 4.0 was released with some issues you had these idiots on every freakin website talking as much trash as they could type. Eventually KDE people got tired of hearing it and started trashing GNOME right back. Now all of a sudden GNOME people are crying bully. GTFOH!!! When 3.5 was flat out better they weren't so bold.

                          The hate comes from them talking too damn much.
                          This. When the shoe was on the other foot and KDE 4.0 had just come out, the amount of trash-talking and attacks against KDE from those on the Gnome side was overwhelming. Now that Gnome 3 is out, you see congratulations from the KDE side. Try searching for congratulations to KDE from the gnome side. I couldn't find any. I see KDE people complaining about some specific design decisions, and some disagreements about philosophy, but there are not the widespread attacks against the entire Gnome project like we saw with the KDE 4.0 release.

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                          • #28
                            emacs vs vi
                            gnome vs kde
                            rocky vs bullwinkle

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                              I see KDE people complaining about some specific design decisions, and some disagreements about philosophy, but there are not the widespread attacks against the entire Gnome project like we saw with the KDE 4.0 release.
                              a KDE user's usual complaint:

                              GNOME won't let me configure <option>
                              GNOME app is lacking <feature>
                              I don't care for gconf
                              I don't care for the default GNOME interface

                              a GNOME user's criticism:

                              KDE sucks
                              KDE is bloated.
                              KDE4 was a disaster
                              QT was evil because of the license

                              It's the same old vast generalizations without specifics, and when you do confront a GNOME user with features they are lacking, they simply ignore it and say "well it does what I need it to do.." Seriously? It's like it'll kill them to admit they aren't perfect. Their community always has been like that, and it probably always will be.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
                                I loved that explanation. On the other side, there are lots of people who went to Arroyo too, and I'm one of these (I still use GNOME in a computer, I still like GNOME) who can see there are lots of options besides GNOME.
                                Good point with Arroyo. I believed Gnome 3 will be a big step forward in terms usability and user friendliness, but they did something different. There are some killer Gtk applications like GIMP, InkScape, Pidgin and they deserve for something better than Gnome Shell imho. Maybe Unity will be a good replacement for it.

                                However, the last time I used KDE was with Knoppix 5.x, I like more the lightweight solutions (being WM's, XFCE or LXDE).
                                I also prefer lightweight solution, but there are some big applications I can't live without. When I install them in LXDE it's not so lightweight anymore thus I'm using KDE.

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