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Will The Free Software Desktop Ever Make It?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by md1032 View Post
    Known Troll Writes Inflammatory Blog Post, news at 11!
    While I agree...I'm curious as to why Phoronix is covering this as a News item.

    I stopped going to because they blended their news articles with lots of third-party opinion BS.

    Stick to actual news. Like the majority of other bits in the Latest Phoronix News section. Most of that is good.

    Discussion that ends up without a plan to make a difference is pointless. I might as well spend that time talking to my dying grandmother. At least that has some worth.


    • #17
      Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
      Hmm... That applies to any OS AFAIK
      It is a bit more difficult for linux. I'm going to have to give you the blackhat support funny for that comment.

      Oh and don't like the message board. It's burning my retnas.


      • #18
        from the article:

        I forgot to put apostrophes around "Panning", and i got greeted with a bleeding panel, with no option to easily get around it. What on earth are we thinking here?

        be more careful the next time Luc . May the codes be with you.


        • #19
          I think we're missing the point here. In order to become a good desktop operating system, Linux needs 2 things:
          1. A stable API for its kernel and its main subsystems, namely the graphics and audio stack. If you want people outside the open source movement to support Linux, you'll have to give them stable APIs so they can write their modules without the worry that they won't work with the next release of the package. This would also ensures some degree of backward compatibility towards old, non-open binaries that are no more supported by the developers. Yes, we would all like 100% free software on our machines, but this is not a perfect world.
          2. One (and only one) thing for every critical task of the OS, so that people can find a similar environment on any distro they may try: one graphical server, one audio framework, one package management system, one GUI toolkit, etc. I know, Linux should be all about users' choice, but when it comes to critical parts of the OS we shouldn't have the luxury of choosing which parts fits us best. With an uniform system framework across distros, people (users and developers alike) would get more attracted to Linux, IMHO.

          If we can achieve these two goals, then Linux on the desktop will finally emerge from its niche.


          • #20
            I'm going to save the author of the rant an expensive copy and paste operation:

            Originally posted by libv
            Amazingly, very few seems to have grasped the key issue here.

            * I am a very long term linux user, X developer and graphics driver developer and it so happens that I edited a config file (Oh! No!), which is one of the key reasons why one is a linux/free software users: one should be able to do _slightly_ out of the box things. Normal people wouldn't even call this out of the box at all, but i read all the above posts, and decided to tune the message to the... public?.
            * X gave up, because i had made one minute error.
            * My panel started bleeding, because plymouth, KMS and the radeon drm didn't work together, and none of them bothered to catch the fact that the Xserver gave up.

            So: "Xserver gives up nicely before even trying to touch any hardware" translates to "panel starts bleeding".

            That's grounds for firing people in my book: nobody tested what happens when X refuses to start. No driver issue, no hw issue, nothing: not a single bit on the hardware was touched by X.

            Then, when the thing turns white, and only then, the whole patronizing thing comes back with a vengeance, and gives little to no option to to recover from this. Nothing present to try to catch a failed boot, no ssh, no grub menu.

            Now what is it that most posters here fail to see?

            And to the masses of anonymous posters who think that i got treated right, that it was fully correct for me to receive a bleeding panel and be given no way out. I hope that someone finds a novel way to quickly discharge your laptops LiIon batteries, to the extend that they explode. Then, when you click outside the area where the Designers believe you should click, your batteries will explodes in your laps, and the designer gets his/her way. Soon, they will have only users who click inside the pre-destined/designed area. How would that suit you?


            • #21
              Originally posted by diegocg View Post
              So, the system was working fine out-of-the-box, but he wanted to use the really really weird "virtual screen" configuration, which is something only used by him and god knows who else and apparently was added back only to appease him, and he claims that something is wrong because such rare option is not well documented and not easy to use?

              This is very true, I have been using Linux as my main OS for about 1 year now, but only out of necessity because windows was wigging out on me on both my desktop and laptop. Linux (Ubuntu specifically) has been treating me very well so far. The only time I have small little issues is when I try to customize the Compiz 3D things and even then it's only little bugs. I have noticed that in the past 2 to 3 years Linux has become MUCH bigger than it used to be. This charge being led mostly by Ubuntu and its various dirivitive distributions that have branched off of it. I CAN'T WAIT to see where things go in the next 2, 3, 4 or 5 years. Linux won't be the top dog in that time. But with out any doubt some BIG things will be happening. especially in the standardization for lots of aspects of Linux usage.

              any who. Gob Bless guys!!!


              • #22
                Originally posted by Michael
                Is 2011 finally the year of the Linux desktop?
                You were being rhetorical and ironic, right?


                • #23
                  Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                  Lots of people use that. It's even in Windows, available thourgh a simple right-click menu on the desktop.
                  Virtual Screens? In Windows? Available with a simple right-click?

                  I don't think you really know what a "virtual screen" is. Hint: It's not a "virtual desktop"


                  • #24
                    Back in the old days I used fglrx to drive my Mobility Radeon X1600 and Radeon 9550R graphics cards (R500 and R300). It didn't work perfect, but it provided me with 3D acceleration, video acceleration and power saving features. Stand by and hibernate operations had some issues, but it was fixed with time. Everything worked well.

                    Then came the famous April 2009 when AMD dropped support for these cards within their fglrx driver. Now I depend on Gallium 0.4 driver and newest X. Result: Bad 3D acceleration (insufficient for driving even Kwin's composition), next to none power management, instability after trying to play any of the 3D games that worked well before (even with UMS radeon driver - nexuiz, vdrift, Counter Strike via Wine) that results with system freeze that requires hard reboot (because for some reason if KMS driver fails I can't even switch to tty1) and the best of the best: the über-cool fast switching virtual terminals which doesn't work always.
                    Thank you X devs, thank you KMS devs and thank you AMD!

                    I'm glad I bought Nvidia card for my new desktop computer. Although their driver isn't open source, at least their driver works without problems.

                    I'd be the happiest person on the world if I found a way to make Catalyst 9.3 driver work with kernel 2.6.34 (which I need for my USB TV tuner to work), even for the price of installing some archaic version of X server - just to have a working laptop once more.

                    And I agree with Luc: this way of graphics support under Linux will never make Linux the desktop OS. On WinXP and earlier versions of windows we had BSOD, and now with KMS we have the system freeze because of poor drivers.

                    Linux used to be much more stable OS than it is today (in terms of graphics support).


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Temar View Post
                      Yes, but some are a lot easier to handle. The problem is that simple operations like i.e. installing a software are no longer simple if the package is not included in the default repository.

                      Linux fails to make simple things simple.
                      On Windows, installing the latest revision of a program from source is a daunting task that I've not yet succeeded at. On Linux, I simply apt-get build-dep x, get source from git, and compile the damn thing. Windows fails to make simple things simple.


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                        Lots of people use that. It's even in Windows, available thourgh a simple right-click menu on the desktop.
                        pics or it did not happen

                        i keep right-clicking and i don't see any option like that FFS ( yes 7 )


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Remco View Post
                          Windows fails to make simple things simple.
                          From the layman's point of view, compiling a program is not a simple task.

                          So, Linux fails to make simple things simple, but succeeds in making complicated things simple, and that's why we like it.

                          On the other hand, Windows succeeds in making simple things simple and complicated things even more complicated .


                          • #28
                            TL;DR: In 2030 for sure. In 2020 perhaps.

                            Two deadly scenarios have to be addressed for Linux to reach masses:
                            1. Updating a 10.04 installed through Wubi causes "error: no such device" + "grub rescue". The average user commits suicide for less than this.
                            2. Configuring xorg.conf is like defusing a bomb. You cut the wrong wBOOMMM!!

                            I think at least 10% Windows of users could use Ubuntu nowadays, and that they would benefit greatly from its greater speed, much faster maintenance, much greater security, and quite easier use (for not bomb-defusing cases, I mean).

                            The reason for the current 1% instead of 10% is that Ubuntu was not pre-installed on their machines.

                            An additional 5% would be possible with more papercut fixing (progressing at good pace) and the damn Photoshop working seamlessly on wine (progressing at good pace also).

                            I'm very curious about what will happen with Chrome OS because I feel that is going to have great acceptance although "it does not have Photoshop nor games!".

                            Also there is a good layer of free apps for Windows: Firefox, VLC, LibreOffice, Pidgin, SumatraPDF, ... there are compelling apps for many of the most popular software desktop categories.


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Licaon View Post
                              pics or it did not happen

                              i keep right-clicking and i don't see any option like that FFS ( yes 7 )
                              Try pressing the windows key + P.


                              • #30
                                What a bullshit

                                I can understand if someone gets angry when something does not work like it should or like someone think it should work. I have that also from time to time. But always this big categories if Linus is or is not ready for the desktop or not is bullshit.

                                Linux is a free system, if you think ok in Linux are one or two simple things then it becomes the major os in 2-3 years go ahaid change this 100-200 lines of code and bring your own version.

                                Then itīs always this linux has this and this small issue, but windows is perfekt (at least the much problems with it get not quoted). So Software is never perfekt it has always bugs in it. As least if it gets bigger then 100.000 lines. And for the one something is a bug for the other it is a feature. (sometimes)

                                If you really think windows does most of the stuff better use it. I think linux is today on the desktop. not in future, today. That not 99% of the users use it is no point. because most of the people who used both systems would agree that macosx is the better then windows but has also not that big market share.

                                Windows works on most computers, and it is installed on most computers you can buy and most people used it for several years. Especialy the last point is the point why they dont will change if windows will do their job in nearly enough as they want it.

                                I know its written to another context but it fits the problem here to:

                                "and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

                                * United States Declaration of Independence

                                I will not over-daemonize microsoft here, and we donīt suffer that much from it but the point that most people is more willing to suffer than changing something is here true as well.

                                Btw. thatīs also the point why we have most of the other important problems on the earth. Unemployment is a big success but we see it as a problem. That caused majorly at least the second world war started from germany. (If there would be a basic income for everyone hitler would remained or become a painter). And with not always fixating on earning money just for the basic surviving nobody would be get black mailed on the work to as example destroy the nature.