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Ubuntu 11.04 Desktop To Get Rid Of GNOME's Shell

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  • #61
    Originally posted by grigi View Post
    I dare you to actually ask yourself the question why there is so much cross-DE hate?
    Because YOU spread it

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    • #62
      Originally posted by KAMiKAZOW View Post
      Because YOU spread it
      Thank you. I was wondering if anyone would spot that :-)

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Nevertime View Post
        Agreed. I've used opensuse on multiple computers including ones with nvidia gpus... sad that people hate on a distro just because they don't know how to install a driver.

        As for apt vs zypper, they're almost the same except zypper has more functionality. I don't see why someone would use apt over zypper unless the just came from a debian distro and didn't realize that they simple need to write zypper instead of apt-get... That's why they dropped apt for suse right? There was 0 advantage in using apt so it was a waste the time.

        If silly little deb fanboys, who think it at all about the 3 little letters at the end of package files, gave opensuse a proper chance and checked out the build service they'd see the old arguments of deb vs rpm are dead. It doesn't matter any more... not that there's really any real difference anyway.
        Interesting, but my trolling comes from actual experience, not cheap flame-baiting. Also... can you indicate me the "right" way to install NVIDIA drivers in OpenSUSE?. Last time I checked, NVIDIA itself had a repository ( ftp://download.nvidia.com/opensuse/11.3/ ), I installed drivers from there, and I got a flow of kernel panics absent in every other distro tried here (Fedora, Arch, Ubuntu, to name a few).

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        • #64
          Firstly, apologies for derailing this thread. That was not my intention.
          Secondly, very much disappointed that I actually got distracted by trying to be reasonable.
          Thirdly, I actually got offended, which is unusual.

          Doose.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by grigi View Post
            What is up with this, "We are a GNOME distribution" and "We are a KDE distribution" nonsense?

            Seriously, there is some apps from the GNOME camp that works better, and some from KDE camp.

            Grow up people! This is not a feud, let the better app win!
            I have to agree with you that for many, their own personal "perfect" setup comes from a range of Gnome AND KDE based stuff.

            Ultimately I think it's going to be up to the individual distros to correct any integration issues that say a KDE app has on a Gnome desktop where possible, but it'd be nice to see as part of the standard test suite trialling how an app runs in "the other guy's" desktop.

            No doubt people will poo poo your perspective because there are those who believe that you can have a really great install with just the DE blessed apps and nothing from the other camp is required. While for some this is actually true, for those that it isn't true for they have to fiddle and fudge away the issues themselves. :-(

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            • #66
              Originally posted by mugginz View Post
              I have to agree with you that for many, their own personal "perfect" setup comes from a range of Gnome AND KDE based stuff.
              This is part of the problem with wanting to build a 'desktop environment', because too often programs written for one don't play nice with programs written for another.

              KDE in particular seems to leave turds around the place whenever I run a KDE app on a Gnome desktop, and yesterday I was somewhat bemused when a dialog box popped up on my Gnome laptop telling me that KDE had discovered that an audio device had been removed, then I realised that I was running k3b from my server displaying on my laptop over ssh forwarding so I could burn a CD of an Ubuntu ISO, and KDE was clearly getting mighty confused.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by movieman View Post
                KDE in particular seems to leave turds around the place whenever I run a KDE app on a Gnome desktop, and yesterday I was somewhat bemused when a dialog box popped up on my Gnome laptop telling me that KDE had discovered that an audio device had been removed, then I realised that I was running k3b from my server displaying on my laptop over ssh forwarding so I could burn a CD of an Ubuntu ISO, and KDE was clearly getting mighty confused.
                It wasn't Ubuntu by any chance was it? :-)

                Ubuntu need to set up Phonon properly so that when a KDE app requiring sound output is launched it works properly. They should integrate Phonon settings into the Gnome audio settings dialogues as well.

                I think it's now time for distros to accept that Gnome users use KDE software and KDE users use Gnome software :-)

                Of course that's obvious to us that users have done for ages but an outsider would never guess that's the case by the way the two desktops have their settings and controls are so separated from each other even when dealing with the same aspects of the same same machine.

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                • #68
                  Looks like Canonical fails to understand that different form factors require different design decisions. Unity is meant for netbooks and other limited screen size devices. Fine. Keep it there. Don't try to force it on ordinary desktop users, the majority of whom have at least one, if not two or more 1680x1050 monitors. The Unity UI looks terrible on big monitors, and it substitutes rugged functionality and customizability for "chic" factor. Not every device can/should be made to look and work like an iPhone. Stop trying to shoe-horn desktop workstations into that UI pattern. We don't need it; we don't want it.

                  I'll sidestep the political issues this time; Bradley Kuhn has that covered anyway. I don't like the Unity UI for purely usability issues, as stated above. I don't like it so much that I have begun a migration of all my servers, desktops, and laptop away from Ubuntu and to OpenSUSE. I had traditionally supported Ubuntu mainly due to the wide array of third-party software available in PPAs without having to build from source. OpenSUSE has since countered with the OpenSUSE Build Service, which is well on its way to competing directly with the wide selection of software in PPAs today. As far as the desktop experience, I actually like the default GNOME 2.x shell customizations that OpenSUSE puts in, especially the Computer menu search function. And YaST Control Center is extremely powerful for those cases where I need something done and I don't remember or don't feel like typing the console command(s) for it. And I doubt that Novell will try to pull a stupid stunt like this. Or if they do, it's off to Fedora for me; I KNOW Red Hat won't pull a stupid stunt like this.

                  Unity is definitely not a one-size-fits-all UI, and that much is obvious to anyone who uses it for a significant period in a business or workstation environment. Keep it in the UNR, fine; but don't shove it on normal desktop users!

                  But my opinion doesn't matter now; Shuttleworth has made up his mind, and they're taking Unity to the masses. I hope that the mass exodus away from Ubuntu that follows this foolish misstep will pick up some renewed interest in Fedora and OpenSUSE, who coincidentally happen to contribute quite a lot to the upstream projects Canonical relies upon.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                    Looks like Canonical fails to understand that different form factors require different design decisions.
                    You are right. Always use the right tool for the job isn't that what they say? I think they may be trying to pull a "MacOS" move. What I mean is that the interface, as stupid as it might be on some form factors/screen resolutions doesn't change. They are aiming for consistency, which is something macs are known to offer, although that's not always a good thing. Sure it may work fine to have the menus from an application away from the actual application window on a latop with a 13" screen, but on a 27" it's ridiculous.
                    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                    I don't like the Unity UI for purely usability issues, as stated above.
                    I tried the latest ubuntu netbook edition and it was one of the worst experiences I had on a netbook. So, I don't think it even works on its primary target.
                    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                    I don't like it so much that I have begun a migration of all my servers, desktops, and laptop away from Ubuntu and to OpenSUSE... OpenSUSE has since countered with the OpenSUSE Build Service, which is well on its way to competing directly with the wide selection of software in PPAs today.
                    People always use the argument that ubuntu has more software and is more "compatible" (whatever that means), but I actually think it's easier to find and install software for openSUSE (software.opensuse.org FTW).
                    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                    As far as the desktop experience, I actually like the default GNOME 2.x shell customizations that OpenSUSE puts in, especially the Computer menu search function. And YaST Control Center is extremely powerful for those cases where I need something done and I don't remember or don't feel like typing the console command(s) for it.
                    I was also surprised to see a gnome shell that didn't look and felt like every other gnome based distro out there. That "classic" gnome look might have been cool a few years ago, but the times have changed.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                      But my opinion doesn't matter now; Shuttleworth has made up his mind, and they're taking Unity to the masses. I hope that the mass exodus away from Ubuntu that follows this foolish misstep will pick up some renewed interest in Fedora and OpenSUSE, who coincidentally happen to contribute quite a lot to the upstream projects Canonical relies upon.
                      In Ubuntu's defence they are trying to be an entry level linux distro for converting windows users. Maybe creating a special ultra user friendly shell (If that is their ultimate goal) will help create the distro for that purpose. I'd imagine they will be facing big competion from meego at some point.

                      Ubuntu is not about being everyone's perfect disrto their not mine, I use opensuse and their probably not yours. Users like you simply won't be their primary target. Yes their user base is huge right now but its at a peak and distros are going to have to focus more in future.

                      I tried a lightweight computer user on kde recently and it showed me how even something seemingly as simple as kde can be confusing. Persuading people to switch from windows, now that windows is finally a good OS, will take a neat, slick and user friendly interface designed to course minimum confusion at every point.

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