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  • #46
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    So if sucky library A is better than sucky library B then library A doesn't suck? Doesn't compute.
    Mono sucks. Does your logic apply now?

    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    Yeah, both Qt and GTK suck, get over it. For different reasons, but they do suck.
    Mono sucks, get over it. For different reasons, but it does suck.

    Oh, and while I'm at it: I'll take a stable C++ app over an unstable Mono app. I'll also take an unstable C++ app over an unstable Mono app.

    You're just SAYING things without providing real world advantages over existing tech (that does the job better anyway).

    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    You aren't looking hard enough.
    I used to develop using .NET (VB.NET/C#), now its more or less every platform/framework OTHER than .NET (and Win32/Win64 of course). That say anything for you? If I have to look that hard, then its not worth using. There are -zero- reasons to develop an application with Linux as your target audience to use Mono. Zero. I found it hard to justify using .NET on Windows over Win32, even.

    Can you provide any real compelling reasons other than 'stability', which is really subject to how well the developer does his memory management? There is always a potential for said developer to do it better than a VM / Interpreter layer because then he can optimize for his specific use case.

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    • #47
      Social disease

      Glad i use a distro that doesn't infect my system by default with this social disease. No need for a cure if you never contract the disease in the first place. =)

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
        You're just SAYING things without providing real world advantages over existing tech (that does the job better anyway).
        You don't provide real-world examples either, so it's alright.

        I used to develop using .NET (VB.NET/C#), now its more or less every platform/framework OTHER than .NET (and Win32/Win64 of course). That say anything for you?
        No, not really. There are hundreds of different technologies, you are bound to use one or another.

        If I have to look that hard, then its not worth using. There are -zero- reasons to develop an application with Linux as your target audience to use Mono. Zero. I found it hard to justify using .NET on Windows over Win32, even.

        Can you provide any real compelling reasons other than 'stability', which is really subject to how well the developer does his memory management? There is always a potential for said developer to do it better than a VM / Interpreter layer because then he can optimize for his specific use case.
        You can embed the Mono runtime in a 2MB executable and code your application on any Mono language. This gets you an excellent IDE, debugger, a great standard library, superb scripting capabilities, performance, better-than-average stability and memory management for free.

        Python embedding is the closest you can come to this, but you lose the IDE, performance and flexibility of Mono.

        I haven't used any other environment that comes close. If you have, I'd love to hear about it!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by FreeBooteR69 View Post
          Glad i use a distro that doesn't infect my system by default with this social disease. No need for a cure if you never contract the disease in the first place. =)
          Your posting amongst infected people puts you into danger.

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          • #50
            Looking back at how BlackStar says that Gtk+ and C suck, wait untill I tell him that the very DE he likes, is writin and build upon suckage Kaboom baby; deny that you are nothing but a total troll, BlackStar.

            Oh yeah, have I got you by the balls

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jacob View Post
              while AFAIK nobody is getting sued over CLR or Mono, Oracle is suing Google over Java right now.
              Actually, they are suing Google because they are NOT using Java, but their own VM called Dalvik. Java's patent exemption requires that you implement both the JVM and JAVA together following their specifications.

              Originally posted by jacob View Post
              I presume that the anti-Mono crowd will never ever ever install the Linux kernel either. The kernel supposedly violates over 120 Microsoft patents
              'Supposedly' in this case means 'heard it from Microsoft', and they have backed up their claims with absolutely nothing. Which makes these claims about as beliveable as the (partly Microsoft funded) SCO FUD debacle. Mono on the other hand is undoubtably patented microsoft tech.

              From what I've seen of C#, it's a fast language to develop in, like other managed langages it suffers in performance when compared to native code but that only applies to projects where performance is paramount. But seriously, with Microsofts track record, I wouldn't touch what I know is their patented tech with a ten-foot pole unless I absolutely had to, community promise or not.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                Python embedding is the closest you can come to this, but you lose the IDE, performance and flexibility of Mono.
                I don't really need or use IDEs, the few times I have they just seemed to get in the way. There are IDEs for Python, and you have lots of flexibility. Performance on Mono isn't going to beat Java or Native C/C++, so that argument is more or less moot. If you're worried about performance to the point at which well-coded Python isn't fast enough for you, then Mono isn't enough for you either. Both are better used as quickly written front ends / GUIs for console applications than for writing actual number crunching applications.

                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                I haven't used any other environment that comes close. If you have, I'd love to hear about it!
                Comes close? Not so sure. Beats? Java. When you look at the use cases, Java is in use in most enterprise solutions for the whole package, and the big difference is that Java is used in both the front and back end for most of these solutions, whereas .NET / ASP are used almost exclusively at the front end.

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                • #53
                  Loooool, so many astroturfers in here.

                  First direct3D, now Mono, and finally we have the first one claiming that Linux violates MS patents.

                  I refuse to believe that there is no financial incentive behind this. Some people are TOO bent on using MS technology everywhere in Linux.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    Loooool, so many astroturfers in here.

                    First direct3D, now Mono, and finally we have the first one claiming that Linux violates MS patents.

                    I refuse to believe that there is no financial incentive behind this. Some people are TOO bent on using MS technology everywhere in Linux.
                    Heh... Fun, isn't it?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      Loooool, so many astroturfers in here.
                      Really. The whole .NET / Mono push on Linux is impossible to understand without looking at the special interests involved.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      First direct3D, now Mono, and finally we have the first one claiming that Linux violates MS patents.
                      Not to mention that Microsoft never elabotated on a single of the (100+?) patents it claimed Linux violated in the 5 +years it has made the claim. Its FUD, which is Microsoft's MO since the beginning of time.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      I refuse to believe that there is no financial incentive behind this. Some people are TOO bent on using MS technology everywhere in Linux.
                      And they're a strict minority. There are no advantages, only potential threats and disadvantages. If Linux needed something like Mono the community would have jumped on writing its own VM layer.

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                      • #56
                        Well, at least, we do know about the existence of the FAT patent, don't we?

                        (no, I don't think Microsoft will kill us all with that)

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                        • #57
                          Well who cares about astroturfers when Fedora and Ubuntu aint never, ever, touching it again.

                          No matter how hard they try; their business fails. Microsoft is losing out, AGAIN! And that makes me so happy ^^,

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                            And bugs. Lots of them!

                            Besides, you can use Qt from Mono and get the best of both worlds.
                            And bugs in mono apps too. I see no single reason to use mono which is outdated .net clone.

                            Oh,rly?

                            And here I thought Linux was a kernel. Can we place bets, too?
                            Didn't you hear ms propaganda about the Linux kernel?

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                            • #59
                              If you're worried about performance to the point at which well-coded Python isn't fast enough for you, then Mono isn't enough for you either. Both are better used as quickly written front ends / GUIs for console applications than for writing actual number crunching applications.
                              Mono is an order of magnitude faster than Python. If Python is too slow for something this doesn't mean that it won't run acceptably on Mono (through e.g. IronPython).

                              Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
                              Comes close? Not so sure. Beats? Java. When you look at the use cases, Java is in use in most enterprise solutions for the whole package, and the big difference is that Java is used in both the front and back end for most of these solutions, whereas .NET / ASP are used almost exclusively at the front end.
                              Java is fine for the enterprise but I've never *ever* seen anyone embed or use Java in a scripting environment. Or a gaming console. Mono is gaining significant traction on these areas.

                              Originally posted by V!NCENT
                              Looking back at how BlackStar says that Gtk+ and C suck, wait untill I tell him that the very DE he likes, is writin and build upon suckage Kaboom baby; deny that you are nothing but a total troll, BlackStar.
                              Nice try, but I never *ever* said that C sucks. C++ sucks, C does not. GTK sucks but you can sometimes create great stuff on sucky foundations.

                              Also, I admit it. I'm paid to inflitrate and seed heretic ideas on Linux websites.

                              What we need now is a Mono binding to Direct3D. We can then layer MonoXNA on that, lie back and enjoy the fireworks! 100page flamefests, here we come!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Yes, the Vista copycat will liberate us from Microsoft. Uh, yeah, keep dreaming!
                                Vista can dream about KDE. So, mono, obsolete .net copycat will liberate us from microsoft then? Or os x clone? Good joke!

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