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  • #16
    Did you ever wonder why companies, inc
    uding race car companies, advertice for teens and other young, but older people; they influence the older people who actialy have the money for these things.
    My point? What students use and want is what the rest of society will be using and wanting in very short time.

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    • #17
      Yeah. So since CS students and artists are pretty much the only Apple laptop users in my uni, we can extrapolate that only geeks and designers will be using Apple products in the long run. ;P

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      • #18
        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
        How much I see MacBooks? 1/4th of what I see is Mac, especialy at school.
        And the rest is GNU/Linux?

        Even if it is the case (what I doubt), my point was that statistically, there's many more Windows boxes. And what's more important, those boxes happen to have the most commercial users. And they run a lot of commercial (binary-only) software, which you cannot change/migrate from overnight.

        Windows and its binary compatibility is not going to "die" any time soon. And if it does, it will be succeeded by .NET-based environment.

        Having said that, I'm still a Linux enthusiast.
        I just don't believe that Linux will ever become mainstream.
        Live with that, commercial entities better meet people's needs than any group of ideologically-motivated (==selfish, essentially) people, because the essence of business is solving someone else's problems for a reward.

        GNU/Linux will always be an open field for experiments where businesses will learn how to do (or not to do) things. And that's what I like about it.

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        • #19
          Did I also mention that the other half of school is phsychology? 99% of these students either are a girl or want to be a girl.

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          • #20
            There are not a lot of Linux pc's. About 1/35th of the people I had a conversation used Linux and 100% of these Linux user were either a boy or want to be a boy.

            But what is your point? I said that both Mac and Linux are taking over, not that Linux is solely taking over; for every twenty Mac convert there is about one Linux convert. User space app-whise free software is going on a full scale attack. FireFox and Chrome is killing IE and OpenOffice.org is being almost always installed, even when MSOffice is installed.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
              But what is your point? I said that both Mac and Linux are taking over, not that Linux is solely taking over; for every twenty Mac convert there is about one Linux convert. User space app-whise free software is going on a full scale attack. FireFox and Chrome is killing IE and OpenOffice.org is being almost always installed, even when MSOffice is installed.
              I don't agree with your data ("always installed") and I consider it an overexaggeration. From surveys that I know of (e.g. this one) it is 3x less frequent. And that's for German install base, country, which is in my opinion more inclined toward open-source software than e.g. Russia or United States.

              My point is: neither Linux, nor even Mac and Linux platforms combined are a threat for Windows domination on desktop in foreseeable future.

              I avoided talking from my personal POV, but the way I see it is that open-source software, while frequently tried, is less often relied upon for business usage. By its nature, FOSS often has "no owner", and that means that there's no single responsible entity that you can sue in case something breaks ;-) (and no one to crunch during sleepless nights fixing bugs for you either).

              E.g. in game development, industry where I work, commercial tools rule everything. Even among SCMs, arguably the easiest area of FOSS tools to excel at, commercial Perforce is still the king, because even as of today, you can't add 50+ GB of data to git repository - welcome to 2010...

              And don't even get me started on gcc and its quality... Linus has already well said on that topic...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RCL_ View Post
                And don't even get me started on gcc and its quality... Linus has already well said on that topic...
                Let's just all go clang and forger GCC C compiler exists?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                  My point? What students use and want is what the rest of society will be using and wanting in very short time.
                  Yeah? Java's been taught as the first language in programming courses for years, and it's still as hated as before that time.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by curaga View Post
                    Yeah? Java's been taught as the first language in programming courses for years, and it's still as hated as before that time.
                    Actually the hatred's kinda worn off lately, now there's deep suspicion at it again due to how Oracle has been handling things.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
                      I seriously hope not. If you've paid any attention to what Apple has been doing, they're plenty more evil than Microsoft. At least Microsoft never forbid you from software developing on their platforms without actually owning one. Apple does.
                      I didn't say it would work. I just said that's the plan.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        Wow is that one hell of a optimistic opinion, especially after all the years OS X, linux, BSD, etc has been out it still dominates with over 90% of the marketshare. At the current pace of market adoption it would take well over 50 years to even come close to reaching 50%.
                        I very much doubt windows have over 90% in desktops. During the last seven months I work as IT manager in a 5 stars Hotel. Every day and I mean EVERY day I run a scan in my wi-fi network to see what's going on. Always the mac users is the majority (including iphones and ipads) and all these in Greece which was not an Apple stronghold. Okay if we count and the company's PCs then windows outperform Apple, but if you note the stats of the guests only then there is no way to conclude that windows has a part of 90%.
                        That's unfortunate ofcourse -FOR ME- since -I- consider that for Apple there is not reason of existence but the truth is that windows keeps declining and declining in a large scale.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                          I very much doubt windows have over 90% in desktops. During the last seven months I work as IT manager in a 5 stars Hotel. Every day and I mean EVERY day I run a scan in my wi-fi network to see what's going on. Always the mac users is the majority (including iphones and ipads) and all these in Greece which was not an Apple stronghold. Okay if we count and the company's PCs then windows outperform Apple, but if you note the stats of the guests only then there is no way to conclude that windows has a part of 90%.
                          That's unfortunate ofcourse -FOR ME- since -I- consider that for Apple there is not reason of existence but the truth is that windows keeps declining and declining in a large scale.
                          OK so you work in a 5 star hotel which more then likely serves a far more generous percentage of Apple target clientel. That isn't surprising. That is by no means an accurate portrayal of the market. I could just as easily quote the local universities numbers where Windows accounts for 97% including student machines . Then there is also the attached research facility where linux should have an even greater presence but even there the percentage is 96%. Then there is our companies client stats which gets nightly statistics from our clients (15,872 connected machines) from everything from daily transactions, number of users, network status, crashlogs, etc and out of all those machines there is exactly 13 Macs (running Parallels) and not one linux desktop (there are however 30 linux servers). That's a whopping 99.98% of them being windows machines. That number has dropped a whopping .02% in 25 years of statistical gathering.

                          http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-200807-201009
                          http://marketshare.hitslink.com/oper...e.aspx?qprid=8

                          Also keep in mind that linux numbers are probably inflated a bit due to the fact that it is commonly used on net enabled devices where windows is primarily used on desktop systems.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                            OK so you work in a 5 star hotel which more then likely serves a far more generous percentage of Apple target clientel. That isn't surprising. That is by no means an accurate portrayal of the market.
                            I never said it's accurate. If I get the numbers as they are then Macs should count for 70%. I just say to have macs in a such a big scale even in a 5 stars hotel means that windows are far from dominant anymore.

                            I could just as easily quote the local universities numbers where Windows accounts for 97% including student machines .
                            Then there is also the attached research facility where linux should have an even greater presence but even there the percentage is 96%.
                            That's a pity and very unfortunate for your universities, seriously. Here and in Europe in general the reality is a bit different.

                            Then there is our companies client stats which gets nightly statistics from our clients (15,872 connected machines) from everything from daily transactions, number of users, network status, crashlogs, etc and out of all those machines there is exactly 13 Macs (running Parallels) and not one linux desktop (there are however 30 linux servers). That's a whopping 99.98% of them being windows machines. That number has dropped a whopping .02% in 25 years of statistical gathering.
                            Your company's logs say one thing, my company's say another. Always depends on the situation.

                            I could hardly rely in webstats even if they present Linux to have 80%. Their accuracy is far from accurate.

                            Also keep in mind that linux numbers are probably inflated a bit due to the fact that it is commonly used on net enabled devices where windows is primarily used on desktop systems.
                            Oh Linux wasn't a part of my comment. Even if Linux triples it's user base that would be a tremendous achievment but in global scale it would stay a big minority. My justification was that Apple is stealing users from Microsoft that's why I said that's unfortunate...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                              I never said it's accurate. If I get the numbers as they are then Macs should count for 70%. I just say to have macs in a such a big scale even in a 5 stars hotel means that windows are far from dominant anymore.


                              That's a pity and very unfortunate for your universities, seriously. Here and in Europe in general the reality is a bit different.


                              Your company's logs say one thing, my company's say another. Always depends on the situation.


                              I could hardly rely in webstats even if they present Linux to have 80%. Their accuracy is far from accurate.


                              Oh Linux wasn't a part of my comment. Even if Linux triples it's user base that would be a tremendous achievment but in global scale it would stay a big minority. My justification was that Apple is stealing users from Microsoft that's why I said that's unfortunate...
                              The whole point was that you were basing your assumptions based on a very small select data set which is not typical at all. I was just trying to point out that extremes can be found in either way and 90+% market penetration is not a figment of imagination but can be found in most stats.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I wonder how true these data are:
                                http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

                                Well on my university, they emphasize the use of linux instead of windows. Maybe about 40 % of the desktops, laptops and servers are running linux. <- Roughly guess.

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