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Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu?

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  • Originally posted by Apopas View Post
    What makes Gentoo fast and light though, is not the compile optimizations but the USE flags which help you install the things you really need and keep your system tidy and clean.
    USE flags is the real power of Gentoo, not the GCC flags.
    Jeah, when youve got the right use-flags set it can give you an out of the box experience like Ubuntu after first booting.

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    • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
      Boot speed of Ubuntu is NOT one of them, at least when compared to Gentoo :P
      Actually it is. Ubuntu nowadays boots a lot faster than Gentoo.
      I've tried to speedup gentoo with some tricks on boottime to but the bootsystem is somewhat static so that it is not possible to improve much.

      don't get me wrong the parallel booting and so on sure are fine ... but right now they just aren't so new anymore as they were 3 Jears ago.

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      • I did come off as annoying and abrasive there, so I apologize.

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        • BTW, my work Ubuntu machine takes forever to boot, my home Gentoo is at the login screen in 10 seconds or so from the Grub screen,

          But this is all anecdotal.

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          • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            It's not about superiority, it is about different choices for different people.

            Over the 6 years that I've been running Gentoo, I've had to install exactly two times (once for each computer I've had during this time).

            With the Ubuntu way, I would have had to reinstall 24 times -- twice a year, corresponding to the regular Ubuntu release schedule.

            So the compile time needed the first time you install the distro is a moot point -- since it's a rolling distro, you only need to do it once.

            I understand that some Gentoo script kiddies come off as abrasive and annoying and condescending, but do try to pick the right arguments.

            Boot speed of Ubuntu is NOT one of them, at least when compared to Gentoo :P
            I guess that is what you consider a "re-install". Most distros can upgrade to the latest and greatest release with a simple one line command. If you don't do any rolling upgrades in Gentoo for six months does that count as an "re-install"? What if a person runs development builds and continuously rolls with them, is each one a re-install?

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            • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              I guess that is what you consider a "re-install". Most distros can upgrade to the latest and greatest release with a simple one line command. If you don't do any rolling upgrades in Gentoo for six months does that count as an "re-install"? What if a person runs development builds and continuously rolls with them, is each one a re-install?
              Even with LTS distros, after some years you won't be able to update your software. With Gentoo or Arch you are able to update them till the end of your days.

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              • He's referring to dist-upgrade.

                Still, if it takes an hour every 6 months to upgrade your dist, then it adds up.

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                • Dist-upgrade?
                  So I have to wait 6-8 months each time to install the new goodies? Too harsh for my taste.

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                  • Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                    Dist-upgrade?
                    So I have to wait 6-8 months each time to install the new goodies? Too harsh for my taste.
                    Nope, you can just use the development builds if you want or add repos to the current released development version of a package. On few of my systems I run the daily builds of the latest kernel, KDE, Alsa, ffmpeg, etc etc and a few other packages as well that actually have interesting development going on in them. Bonus is that I don't even have to do all the work to do that. Same idea, just two different means to an end.

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                    • In Gentoo is automatic as well.
                      But what about the depedency hell? I hate more than windows to install unused software.

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                      • In gentoo, upgrading major components of the system, such as libc, python, gcc, libtools, etc. can lead to breakage, or at least require (often automated) rebuilding of many packages, and fixing the loose ends, which can be daunting to a non-experienced user.

                        Dists such as Debian avoid this by only making huge changes at once, in a distro upgrade process you have to do from time to time, which updates all essential components together, reducing the danger of things blowing in your face.

                        Still, I think that the complexity of rolling distros such as Arch and gentoo is overrated and the simplicity of more traditional distro upgrades too. I've had dist-upgrade breakages on Debian too, though not as frequently.

                        The argument that it is not easy to simply try out Gentoo (short of using a live CD) is true. It takes a commitment due to the more complex install process. As a result, it tends to attract people who know exactly what they are looking for in a distro, and not distro-hoppers running a different one every week. In that case, 12 hours (most of which is fully automated, you go and have an espresso and watch a movie) is really not a major argument.

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                        • Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                          In Gentoo is automatic as well.
                          But what about the depedency hell? I hate more than windows to install unused software.
                          You can build the packages to what ever you want on a build system if you want to rid your self of un-needed packages. Some systems also allow you to look for orphaned packages. My openSUSE system has its packages all built without pulseaudio for example. Dependency Hell nightmares are relatively rare nowdays. Package management has come a loooong ways of the last few years.

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                          • Sounds like you're reinventing Gentoo and USE flags on OpenSUSE.

                            It's good to hear that it can be done, though, flexibility is always welcome, as long as it doesn't impact other considerations.

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                            • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                              You can build the packages to what ever you want on a build system if you want to rid your self of un-needed packages. Some systems also allow you to look for orphaned packages. My openSUSE system has its packages all built without pulseaudio for example. Dependency Hell nightmares are relatively rare nowdays. Package management has come a loooong ways of the last few years.
                              Hey we have repeated that conversation.
                              Ofcourse it can be done That's Linux. I can even take Ubuntu and make it rpm based.But it's like reinventing the wheel. With Gentoo you don't need to deal with depedencies or whatever. It's automatic. I added the options I wanted in a text file in October of 2004 and since then I just run emerge

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                              • Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                                Why redoing the kernel all the time? You just keep your .config around and you adjust it to the newer kernel. 10 minutes job. There is even an option to pack it inside your kernel image.
                                Funny you mention that. Obviously I did keep my .config but that wasn't enough. Every time some little thing changed or I compiled a kernel that didn't work, I also had to re install (binary) drivers. I got annoyed when one breakage would break another. It was obviously due to my lack of patience that I gave up on Gentoo. If I had the patience I would still be using it.
                                Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                                What makes Gentoo fast and light though, is not the compile optimizations but the USE flags which help you install the things you really need and keep your system tidy and clean.
                                USE flags is the real power of Gentoo, not the GCC flags.
                                The use flags are why I liked Gentoo so much. Honestly if it was much easier, I'd still be using Gentoo now. I would save my USE flags and then when re installing Gentoo, gave a really fresh install and a fast system, that was almost complete. Maybe in the future, the use flag system will be automatic as well as the .config so that you can just run through a bunch of check boxes as to what you want in the OS.
                                Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                                In gentoo, upgrading major components of the system, such as libc, python, gcc, libtools, etc. can lead to breakage, or at least require (often automated) rebuilding of many packages, and fixing the loose ends, which can be daunting to a non-experienced user.

                                Dists such as Debian avoid this by only making huge changes at once, in a distro upgrade process you have to do from time to time, which updates all essential components together, reducing the danger of things blowing in your face.
                                Arch linux has had it's fare share of breakages too. As I mentioned before when libc was upgraded once, almost every package that depended on it had to be updated. This also meant that some mirrors were not sync'd properly to the main Arch package database. So I had to do a full update of the system from archlinux.org itself rather than my local mirror which had bits and pieces of updated and non updated packages. It almost broke my system so bad that I couldn't update (using pacman which was broken) to fix the problem. Thank God for wget heh.
                                Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                                It's not about superiority, it is about different choices for different people.

                                Over the 6 years that I've been running Gentoo, I've had to install exactly two times (once for each computer I've had during this time).

                                With the Ubuntu way, I would have had to reinstall 24 times -- twice a year, corresponding to the regular Ubuntu release schedule.
                                Another reason why I stuck to Arch Linux. I've lasted two years without a fresh install. Though I remember on the forums, one of the package maintainers mentioned that they aim for 12 months plus. There has been only one time that the system was so broken that I couldn't update and that was probably my fault anyway.

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