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  • #16
    But it is a disaster. For users like me, who don't like it when the abundance of eyecandy, animation effects and application menus are intruding and constantly modifiend the entire desktop you're using. That's absurd.

    Gnome Shell is a nice addition, but for another type of users. I've used Gnome for 7 years but 3 is just not what I expected. And I know that gnome-panel will still be around, but it's not the future and they will deprecate it soon enough...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by urfe View Post
      But it is a disaster. For users like me, who don't like it when the abundance of eyecandy, animation effects and application menus are intruding and constantly modifiend the entire desktop you're using. That's absurd.
      Do you have a disability related to learning? That's no pun intended!

      I've used Gnome for 7 years but 3 is just not what I expected. And I know that gnome-panel will still be around, but it's not the future and they will deprecate it soon enough...
      If you have been able to use Linux back in 2002 then that means that you are not stupid. Why can't you learn XFCE? It can be moddeled to look just like Gnome. It also uses GTK. All the Gnome apps and volume managers etc just work on XFCE too and it's even a lot faster.

      You learn a new GUI everytime you get a new phone, tv, dvd-player, etc etc. Sow does it really matter if you could also use KDE4 for example? There are also a lot o0f positive things about other DE's...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
        If you want 'basic functionality' then use XFCE. If you want the most functionality then use KDE. Gnome has never been about functionality anyway; it's about easy to use.
        So functionality is not one of the main criteria for a working desktop? We can't have both?

        Only when you click on it. But really, did you thought about "hey I'm going to check my email"(activity) or "Hey I'm gonna turn on my computer and click on the firefox icon so that I could browse with tiny buttons to phoronix and then react to posts here with the reply button"("basic functionality")? The Gnome shell is modeled after human thinking and not towards the structure of a device.
        Have you seen the Applications menu? Why do you need:
        1 click on Activities
        2 - animation - (expose-like effect)
        3 click on more to see all current registered menu items
        4 - get a menu that covers all your workspaces -
        5 find what you were looking for?

        Just look at it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkBSF4I5lw

        Easy to use? What if I was reading some instructions of how to launch a specific applications from a website? I won't be able to read the text next step (in the tutorial) as soon as I press Activities -> The workspace will be resized so something smaller. Even if I set a huge font in firefox, just so that I'll be able to read it, the expanding activities menu will cover most of my screen as soon as I want a detailed look of it.

        Next thing you know is that they are going to make programs that also depend on a CPU and RAM! Dude every computer has a GPU. And these animations are for clarity, so they are not useless.
        We don't have a working GPU backend for cairo but you agree that pushing an entire desktop that needs GPU for nice animations only (!) is sound? And that assuming that the drivers provided by nvidia, ati and the community will all work fine.


        Edit: I know that what I've tried so far is only pre-alpha and that things can change. What I disagree with, is that cover-all concept of the activities menu. Maybe other applets will be able to replace it - that's not the point.
        Last edited by urfe; 08-30-2009, 06:47 AM.

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        • #19
          GNOME get more and more like the dreaded M@c each day....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by urfe View Post
            But it is a disaster. For users like me, who don't like it when the abundance of eyecandy, animation effects and application menus are intruding and constantly modifiend the entire desktop you're using. That's absurd.

            Gnome Shell is a nice addition, but for another type of users. I've used Gnome for 7 years but 3 is just not what I expected. And I know that gnome-panel will still be around, but it's not the future and they will deprecate it soon enough...
            You are speaking in the past tense, as if Gnome 3 was released already. Wait until it's ready before judging it, as a 7-year Gnome user you owe the Gnome developers at least that much respect.

            I've been a Gnome user for 6 years and throughout this time Gnome has steadily improved without losing its roots. Seriously, the biggest "regression" I have hit is the removal of the font:/// handler in nautilus - now compare that with KDE 4.

            Personally, I trust the Gnome developers to deliver a 3.0 that will maintain this tradition. It is way too early to judge Gnome shell.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by urfe View Post
              So functionality is not one of the main criteria for a working desktop? We can't have both?
              It is well known that Gnome often doesn't get new features because it's too difficult for the user. Please, get your head out of the sand.

              Have you seen the Applications menu? Why do you need:
              1 click on Activities
              2 - animation - (expose-like effect)
              3 click on more to see all current registered menu items
              4 - get a menu that covers all your workspaces -
              5 find what you were looking for?
              It's the entire easy to understand approach towards "I want to edit a file." and "I want to browse the web" that needs to get a little into you face because it's an important and big part of the usability philosophy. It's the Gnome's new idea of using a computer, instead of using a DE. A user should never need to think about the DE. The user should think about the tasks that he or she wants to accomplish on a computer today and not what fucking button to click. This is also touch screen heaven. Please also look a little at the positive part? Gnome is for people that do not want and need to understand how a computer works, just like you would not want to be forced to know how you car works in detail from the inside out. <_<'

              The activity bar is only shown when you click on it... It's only there to launch apps. Have YOU looked at Gnome-shell yourself?

              And what is T?
              Software evolves. Buy a 5$ GPU that does have working 3D drivers in Linux -_-' But maybe you have to time to provide 2D code? If not then just shut up and fuck of, really. Change can be positive too.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                now compare that with KDE 4.
                Are you talking about 4.0 specifically, or 4.x? KDE 4.2 and 4.3 are just as good as, if not better than, any version of KDE 3.x or GNOME has ever been.

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                • #23
                  Imo it's a very good thing gnome-shell exists no matter whether it dies or not. Software developers are all too scared to try out new concepts as is, just look at the UI's nowadays. They're all the same on every damn operating system. Why not stand up to the challenge of trying to design the next generation's UI that everyone else will try to copy when it's done? Even if it fails, it gives important experience in that the direction obviously isn't a good one and the next attempt will have to go into yet another. Change is good.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
                    Imo it's a very good thing gnome-shell exists no matter whether it dies or not. Software developers are all too scared to try out new concepts as is, just look at the UI's nowadays. They're all the same on every damn operating system. Why not stand up to the challenge of trying to design the next generation's UI that everyone else will try to copy when it's done? Even if it fails, it gives important experience in that the direction obviously isn't a good one and the next attempt will have to go into yet another. Change is good.
                    Nailed it! Not only GUI's but computers too. Everthing is so rusted together in place and copied to death. When did we lose the innovation? Oh wait... Micro-... yeah >.<

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                      If not then just shut up and fuck of, really. Change can be positive too.
                      I agree 1000% with all of your statements but everyone has different views, we (the Linux guys) know that better than everyone and because of that he have so many options. So to insult in such a way someone other's views is at least unexcusable.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dragoran View Post
                        For this to work reliably you need input redirection in X which is still not done (being worked on thought).
                        yeah i know, but until you have redirection you can try to do it the hacky way
                        + i think you might be able to do it with multiple cursors that are available with the next xserver release and mpx...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                          If not then just shut up and fuck of, really
                          Now that you insulted me several times I finally acknowledge that all my experiences and preferences regarding DEs and Gnome's future are wrong. How could I have ever dared to state that intrusive menus and resizings are disrupting the workflow on that desktop? Thank you, good sir.
                          Last edited by urfe; 08-30-2009, 10:59 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                            Micro-... yeah >.<
                            Yes, let's blame it on Microsoft. Except that IEEE evaluated MS and said it's no. 1 in innovation (second year in a row). I guess this surely cannot be, I mean academic organizations surely have no clue...

                            http://ipbiz.blogspot.com/2009/01/ie...score-for.html
                            Last edited by urfe; 08-30-2009, 11:07 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by urfe View Post
                              Yes, let's blame it on Microsoft. Except that IEEE evaluated MS and said it's no. 1 in innovation (second year in a row). I guess this surely cannot be, I mean academic organizations surely have no clue...
                              Actually it mostly said that Microsoft is the no. 1 in patents. Since they try to mostly patent everything probably including your mom, that's no wonder. It doesn't technically say anything about innovativity, especially in the US, unless you count in juridical innovativity.

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                              • #30
                                Yes, I don't like patents either (ok, abusing patents).

                                The IEEE does more than that just counting patents, though. The biggest patten holder almost every yeas is IBM (they're also very proud of it, they kept mentioning it in Boblingen), for example, but they didn't get the first place, so there are other criteria.
                                There was another survey, also by IEEE (I don't know of any ACM survey), and MS was voted as the best partner of scientific research communities.

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