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  • #16
    Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
    4.2, i eagerly await a proper 4.3 before i test anything.
    You really should try 4.3 once it comes out. It is a joy to use.

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    • #17
      Two great posts by drag here.

      I've installed and used every major KDE version since 3.5. Every single time, I've come back to Gnome. The Gnome environment is simply put together better. KDE has a few nice features, but it's the small details in usability where it falls down hard.

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      • #18
        KDE 4 is great. Now can we get rid of the lame brain dead "start" menu clone in it already?

        Also, what's with the status bar icon all being redrawn - SLOWLY - whenever I switch focus to another window? To me there are so much burden running KDE 4 desktop. Don't tell me that my machine is underspeced: Q9550 @ 3.8G, 4GB DDR2-900, 2900XT should not be too shabby to handle a desktop environment. That, along with the "start" menu clone, pissed me off several times when I try KDE 4. 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, no difference. So Now I am sticking with the good old GNOME for another several years before I even look back. Using KDE4 and GNome side by side and you instantly notice the speed (read: responsiveness) difference. not much to say
        Last edited by FunkyRider; 07-30-2009, 08:25 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by drag View Post
          Well I missed that OpenSuse forced the user to choose during installation.
          But SLED offering both in packages is meaningless to this discussion. All the major distros provide KDE packages. The default for SLED is Gnome.

          Again default!=standard. In fact most mainstream distro's allow choosing either upon installation.

          Distro watch's statistics are BS. I don't know how they compile them, but it's not accurate.
          They are rated on hits. The distro that gets the most hits gets a higher rank. Their results pretty much jive on par with what desktoplinux.com's survey brought out as well.


          It is. If your a ISV and you need to target your customers then Gnome and GTK will offer the largest install base. Redhat is the #1 OS required for customers to use in order to be compatible with commercial desktop applications for businesses. This provides a common install base so that ISVs do not have to deal with the extra expense and difficulty of tracking down variations in multiple Linux distros
          That's why it's the standard. It's not very complicated.
          Hate to break this for you but RH and SLED account for less then 3% combined of linux desktops installed and as far as commercial apps go more use TCL/TK then any GTK based solutions.

          What surveys? Were? In KDE forums?
          (links would be nice)
          http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...e-year-695620/

          http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/e...penSUSE110.pdf

          http://www.google.com/trends?q=GNOME...ate=all&sort=0

          Even the one survey that does favor Gnome (although alot of speculation on it since there was a whole shitload of last minute 10000 entries citing Gnome and openSUSE) shows that Gnome does not have a majority.

          http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/...=0813200712407
          http://www.ubuntista.com/2007/08/24/...-gnome-vs-kde/

          Even in a Ubuntu/Gnome fan site such as Phoronix shows KDE capturing more share.

          http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15809


          That is a pointless and irrelevent assertion to make. Next thing you know you'll be bringing up Ford and cars types into the disccusion.
          Actually that is more in line with your conclusions.

          It should and in a couple years it will. That's my prediction.
          Uhhuh and 2010 will be the year of the linux desktop

          There is a growing need for standardization for the desktop so it's definately going to happen. The way things are right now Gnome is much better positioned and has the support from vast majority of companies interested in forwarding commercial LoTD efforts.
          Please qualify that.

          (edit: Moblin is now a LSB standard. It's not a distro, so much, is a environment for ISVs and there is compliance testing and dependency requirements required to be 'Moblin Compatible'. Novell already has Moblin compatible Suse versions. Ubuntu has a Moblin compatible version. Fedora 12 is aiming for Moblin compatibility.... The technologies that Intel is pushing for the gnome environment are playing a heavy roll in what Gnome 3 will be. Gnome 3 is, also, going to be a much smoother transition then KDE 3 vs 4.. it'll be done in a step by step manner rather then one big break)
          LMAO, moblin is LSB compliant as are many other desktops it's not a standard. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE.

          moblin!=gnome
          gtk!=gnome

          Or do we start counting the number of nokia devices that use QT4 and count that as KDE?

          ---------------------

          Remember:

          There is absolutely no harm for KDE, or any other desktop environment, if Gnome is required to be installed for compatibility reasons. It's just a few hundred megs on a disk. Even a low-end new computer can brush that off.

          ---------------------
          Same can be said for any other desktop in linux. It is after all one of the "unofficial standards" that free desktop set forth which if you look at has many kde derived technologies such as DBUS.

          KDE used to be in contention for the 'standard' environment, but they blew it when they gave up all compatibility with previous applications. it was not obvious at the time that the KDE 3 to 4 transition would cause so much havok, but time has proven that it did.
          To run KDE apps in Gnome you have to install KDE libs same goes vice versa so your point is? Just like to run KDE3 apps in KDE4 you have to have KDE3 libs installed as well.

          So application designers and distros had the choice of putting a lot of effort into supporting something that was obviously dead (KDE 3.5 is the end of the line for that desktop.) or making their users use something that was obviously not ready for prime time (KDE 4).
          When there is real progression to be made breakage will always happen. This happens in gnome too.

          It's taken approximetly 2 years for KDE 4.x to get to the point were it is currently at.

          That is about 3-4 entire major releases from popular distros like Fedora and Ubuntu. That's also a long time for Novell to tell Suse users to make the choice between programming for a dead-end environment or a environment that is not really usable for most people.
          That is why suse did not cut cold turkey from 3 to 4 and allowed the applications to catch up. It really wasn't that hard and KDE3 is still supported for another 5 years in their enterprise solutions that came with it

          KDE is a fine desktop. But they are still going to have to put a lot of work into catching up to were KDE 3.5 was 4 years ago, much less were Gnome is at today.
          Gnome has not made even close to the radical changes that KDE has over the same period. Just the plain fact that the KDE3/4 transition has been as smooth as it has is a pure testament of the competency of the KDE team. Compare deltas between the two projects over the years and you can see that the Gnome team changed about as much as the windows xp desktop over the years.

          --------------------------

          And good luck for KDE. They can still pull off creating a great product. It would be nice to have a nicer desktop then Gnome.
          [/quote]

          No luck needed, they just need to continue the pace at which they are moving.

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          • #20
            deanjo thats a hell of a quote roll. I read like half of that and then got tired XD.

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            • #21
              I would maybe switch to KDE if it used 1/2 less of resources.

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              • #22
                It is said that GNOME is supposed to be "simple," "light," and "easy-to-use," but I see it is quite a levithian beast. Right now, a complete vanilla install is 1013.37 megabytes (826.22 without the games and Tomboy), not including some of the common libraries such as GTK2. There are not too much changes between GNOME releases, but, yet, it continues to grows larger.

                As for KDE, a complete vanilla KDE 4.2 install is 914.06 megabytes (643.12 without the games, education, and developer software), not including common libraries such as Qt. KDE is "kuite" heavy [hardware-wise] and comes with everything, including not only the kitchen sink, but an assortment of shiny deluxe-model kitchen appliances, too -- most of which many will probably never use. Despite this, it only requires nearly half (or a third) of the space that "simple," "light," and "easy-to-use" GNOME uses. I sense there is something wrong with this.
                Last edited by Wintervenom; 08-05-2009, 04:49 AM.

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                • #23
                  My humble 5 cents:
                  I would like to point out that a certain OS with a certain desktop environment has a >90% market share, which makes me believe that some people actually like it.
                  Maybe you guys should be comparing yourself to that standard instead of the unpopular "Linux" desktops.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Gnome? lol. I'de rather use Windows 98, it's their model anyways. Gnome has been created because Qt wasn't gpl, but now that qt is gpl what do gnome folks do? They close their eyes on it and slowly switching to MONO!

                    GNOME is ridicolous and this fact demonstrates it.


                    Last but not least this bullshit of GNOME being more stable than kde in the past was ridicolous! They use KDE3 even at the CERN. Idiots like to talk, but it's because they are too shy to admit they liked using Windows 98, that's why they use GNOME today.Oh, and MONO... they just love it and hated Qt. Funny.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                      Oh, and MONO... they just love it and hated Qt. Funny.
                      Yeah that is actually funny . Gnome based distros include mono by default for few apps that are claimed to be HOT stuff and on the other hand do not want to include Qt4 based apps even though there is quite a lot HOT stuff of Qt4 apps that are simply better then gtk+ alternatives.

                      Mono/gtk# integrates nicely with GNOME, Qt4 also integrates nicely with GNOME... Qt4 has no legal problems, Mono has legal problems/controversy ...

                      but wait Qt4 is from the 'K' camp ... that's the problem

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        Yeah that is actually funny . Gnome based distros include mono by default for few apps that are claimed to be HOT stuff and on the other hand do not want to include Qt4 based apps even though there is quite a lot HOT stuff of Qt4 apps that are simply better then gtk+ alternatives.
                        Qualify that. Banshee, Tomboy, Gnome Do are what you call HOT stuff. Right now, there's no alternative that can stand up to those.

                        Qt4 has no legal problems, Mono has legal problems/controversy ...
                        Close, but not quite right. If you qualified that with "Qt4 has no *known* legal problems", you would have been right. Mono doesn't have any known legal problems either.

                        Has anyone sued Mono for patent infringment? Has anyone even *threatened* to sue? Newsflash: Microsoft claims the Linux kernel infringes ~200 of its patents. If you consider those threats legitimate why are you even using the Linux kernel? If you don't consider them legitimate, why are you holding Mono to a different standard?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                          Gnome? lol. I'de rather use Windows 98, it's their model anyways. Gnome has been created because Qt wasn't gpl, but now that qt is gpl what do gnome folks do? They close their eyes on it and slowly switching to MONO!

                          GNOME is ridicolous and this fact demonstrates it.


                          Last but not least this bullshit of GNOME being more stable than kde in the past was ridicolous! They use KDE3 even at the CERN. Idiots like to talk, but it's because they are too shy to admit they liked using Windows 98, that's why they use GNOME today.Oh, and MONO... they just love it and hated Qt. Funny.
                          This post is a walking fallacy.

                          -Gnome does not copy the win 98 model. Anyone who has actually used it can tell you otherwise. You obviously let your emotional fanboy tendencies get between your screen and your eyes.

                          -Gnome users dont hate QT. It is simply a framework, most of us use whatever works best or what the application supports. Sometimes thats QT and other times thats GTK.

                          Im not partisan. I loved KDE3 but im currently a gnome user because my distro uses it. I have no preference over either except that my experiences with KDE4 had been less than stellar.

                          It almost seems like you are scared. You have an, us vs them mentality to you. Your arguments have no base except for MONO and thats because MONO is kicking ass right now.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                            Qualify that. Banshee, Tomboy, Gnome Do are what you call HOT stuff. Right now, there's no alternative that can stand up to those.
                            I have never used Gnome Do or Tomboy but Amorok is way better then Banshee ... most people consider Amarok to be the no 1 linux player, just like Firefox is considered the no 1 browser.

                            Has anyone sued Mono for patent infringment? Has anyone even *threatened* to sue? Newsflash: Microsoft claims the Linux kernel infringes ~200 of its patents. If you consider those threats legitimate why are you even using the Linux kernel? If you don't consider them legitimate, why are you holding Mono to a different standard?
                            I bolded the important thing for you. So using technology from a company that makes such statements is as safe as using Qt ? Now did QtSoftware ever said Linux infringes patents?


                            I just find it funny how Gnome based distros do not include Qt4 apps in default install, because of extra space/dependency issue while on the other hand "controversial" mono is ok even though it is an extra dependency... If they stayed with pure GTK+ apps I would shut up...
                            Last edited by val-gaav; 07-31-2009, 11:59 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by val-gaav View Post

                              I just find it funny how Gnome based distros do not include Qt4 apps in default install, because of extra space/dependency issue while on the other hand "controversial" mono is ok even though it is an extra dependency... If they stayed with pure GTK+ apps I would shut up...
                              Exactly. They tell that I'm a fanboy when they are the ones that ignore GPL serious framework like Qt and switch to Mono.

                              Gnome is ridicolous.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                seems more of an attack on MONO then an attack on gnome. Large corporations make stupid claims all the time. Microsoft tried to sue some web developer over some domain name, luckily they lost. c# is a great language and thats undeniable. Sure its not as fast as c++ and maybe not as easy as python but its good at what it does.

                                Bottom line, I CLAIM to be the smartest person in the world. What separates claims and reality is that claims have no standing without evidence. Reasons exist for microshaft not actually acting on your presumed 200 claims.

                                BTW, praying to the mighty GPL doesnt help your argument, it just makes you look like a religious freak. instead of comparing gnome to kde and how inferior gnome is i suggest you spend your time and help contribute. KDE4 has been performing bad (havent tried RC3, as it says, RC) but it has lost serious ground and thats undeniable. Simply saying your enemy sucks doesn't make you better, microsoft has been employing this as an advertisement tactic for years. it simply doesn't work and is counterproductive.

                                As it stands current gnome is better then current "stable" KDE. Stability is the key factor in this. If you want to pit KDE3 against gnome then you have an argument. Until your "side" (kuz you clearly want to wage a desktop war) can make a truly stable release you have nothing. I myself will be waiting for 4.3's release.

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