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  • #11
    Originally posted by KDesk View Post
    Gnome-Do would be better if they had choose another programing language and not Microsoft's .NET or Mono.
    s/Gnome-Do/GNOME
    ..although I don't know if I agree, as I'm not all that familiar with mono myself.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by KDesk View Post
      Gnome-Do would be better if they had choose another programing language and not Microsoft's .NET or Mono.
      This mentality is just inane. For what it's worth, Gnome Do is based on ECMA standards (C# and the .Net VM) and the free GTK# and Mono stacks. It doesn't rely on proprietary technology.

      C# is a great language that is defined by a standard. Likewise for the .Net VM. As long as you steer clear of proprietary technologies, e.g. Windows.Forms (who'd guess!), you are safe.

      Like it or not, Mono usage is going to increase, not decrease.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
        This mentality is just inane. For what it's worth, Gnome Do is based on ECMA standards (C# and the .Net VM) and the free GTK# and Mono stacks. It doesn't rely on proprietary technology.

        C# is a great language that is defined by a standard. Likewise for the .Net VM. As long as you steer clear of proprietary technologies, e.g. Windows.Forms (who'd guess!), you are safe.

        Like it or not, Mono usage is going to increase, not decrease.
        At least Java and Flash more or less make it foolproof for some random dev's app to be accidentally portable. Joe Dev's C# app will definitely be Windows-only until he learns to program in portable fashion, which he never will.

        Mono/.NET is not strategic for Linux or for Free Software.

        Plus, Microsoft can always make their .NET framework treat the standard the same way IE6 treated HTML/CSS/javscript/etc. They can introduce as much incompatibility as they want to kill alternative implementation whenever they like.
        Last edited by StringCheesian; 03-06-2009, 03:40 AM.

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        • #14
          Sorry, but your argument doesn't really make sense. Flash is as proprietary as always and Sun maintains a closed-source implementation of Java, just like Microsoft/.Net. Both technologies carry the same risks as Microsoft's. Had you said Python, I'd have agreed 100%, though.

          In any case, there's little in .Net that's inherently non-portable. If you don't do anything stupid, Mono will be able to run your code 9 times out of 10. The portability issues mainly stem from rubbish tutorials that advocate using non-portable p/invokes and other windows-only hacks.

          With GTK and QT bindings you have all the tools you need for cross-platform development.

          The other nice thing about Mono is that it innovates in ways .Net cannot even touch, e.g. Mono.Simd (which accelerates math operations), Mono.Pango (great quality text rendering on all platforms), Mono.Zeroconf and many many more. The Microsoft stigma is heavy, but Mono becomes more and more innovative as time passes.

          My prediction is it will become more relevant as time passes, not less.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            Both technologies carry the same risks as Microsoft's.
            It's different. Sun and Adobe have nothing to gain from interfering with alternative implementations, nor from putting any of the OSs/platforms they run on at any disadvantage.

            Microsoft also has nothing to gain from doing so, at the moment. It would only impair .NET's growth in popularity. That will change when .NET has more of a foothold. Once .NET is established, it will be in their interest to start being tricky.

            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            The other nice thing about Mono is that it innovates in ways .Net cannot even touch, e.g. Mono.Simd (which accelerates math operations), Mono.Pango (great quality text rendering on all platforms), Mono.Zeroconf and many many more. The Microsoft stigma is heavy, but Mono becomes more and more innovative as time passes.
            But how does that help, ultimately?
            Last edited by StringCheesian; 03-06-2009, 05:25 AM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by StringCheesian View Post
              It's different. Sun and Adobe have nothing to gain from interfering with alternative implementations, nor from putting any of the OSs/platforms they run on at any disadvantage.

              Microsoft also has nothing to gain from doing so, at the moment. It would only impair .NET's growth in popularity. That will change when .NET has more of a foothold. Once .NET is established, it will be in their interest to start being tricky.
              I understand your point, but I'm not sure I agree.

              The truth of the matter is that Microsoft wants .Net to tie developers to Windows, correct? If that is so, it would seem they'd prefer to keep compatibility with Mono rather than extend and extinguish their competitors.

              The reason is simple: every single Mono/.Net developer is a potential Windows developer - but only so long as compatibility is kept. Were they to kill compatibility, a number of these developers would turn to Objective-C or Python or other non-Microsoft technologies - which means they'd lose both money and developers!

              Microsoft knows that developers are everything. If their platform has compelling apps, the (paying) users will come.

              Originally posted by StringCheesian View Post
              But how does that help, ultimately?
              Mono is slowly diverging from and overtaking .Net. They have several compelling features (e.g. pertaining to math, platform-compatibility, hosting scenarios) that attract developers away from .Net. Did you know that Second Life is now using Mono? Wikipedia?

              This is important for two reasons:
              1. Each and every Mono developer is a potential Linux developer.
              2. If Microsoft ever decides to become tricky, Mono will be strong enough to fork away and live, keeping its cross-platform status and its developers. In that case, Microsoft only stands to lose (both in goodwill and developer base).

              A last point is that Mono/.Net fill in a very important ninche: they provide a way for wildly diverse languages to interoperate. Just imagine how awesome it would be would be if Ocaml could use Python libraries or if Python could use Java libraries and so on. Well, this is possible with Mono right now, with F#, IronPython and IKVM respectively - and this is a *huge*.

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