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OS X Is No Longer On My Main System, But I Already Have Regrets

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  • #76
    I'm not the least bit surprised!

    Though honestly I didn't think HiDPI would be as significant an issue as it seems to be for you. For a daily user, where the user isn't primarily focused on code development, Mac OS really does beat all others in performance, usability and general glitch free operation.

    For a daily user I switched to a MBP in 2008 and have never looked back! I can run all the Linux instances I need in a VM without problem. Further Linux runs fine on my other machines. When I want to sit down and create something though the Mac can't be beat.

    I would not be surprised at all to see Michael buying a new Mac Book of some sort in a few months. Especially considering he can't afford the productivity lost.


    • #77
      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      I don't know about OSX, but Windows 8.1 are actually quite good. After 5 years of using ArchLinux only, with various DEs, i grew tired of Linux on my main desktop and put Windows 8.1 on it. And i am really happy, they are much more stable, FASTER, with an advanced graphics stack, perfect software compatibility etc...
      Why were you using Linux at all in the first place if switching to windows 8.1 of all things is something you find acceptable now. One of the main reasons people switch to linux, especially 5 years ago when linux was more bare bones, is to have complete control over their operating system. Windows 8 is a massive departure from windows 7 in that regard alone, and is worlds away from linux. Privacy and security is another big reason -- windows cannot compare in this respect either.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      And before all these kids and neckbeards
      Humor fail.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      Linux on the Desktop sucks, it always sucked and it will always suck. I have put up with many problems over the years just because i wanted it to work, but overall, it was more trouble that it was worth...
      Linux on the desktop is fantastic. Perhaps if you're not good at rigging custom solutions and figuring things out on your own, Arch linux wasn't the right distro for you in the first place.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      Linux is still good for server or embedded applications, but on the Desktop it will never catch on. It is too chaotic and too amateurish to present a decent experience for the average user.
      Ubuntu provides a very non-chaotic, simplified user interface. Unity has been getting continually better, and although I prefer KDE, I'd recommend unity to any novice user. It's getting to the point that Unity could easily be shipped on computers and sold at best buy, and provide a satisfying experience for most home users. Chrome OS takes it even farther towards simplification, which should be great for users with basic needs. Chrome OS isn't GNU/Linux, but it is Linux, and I expect to see greater android/chrome/gnulinux convergence as time goes on.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      Michael faced a problem with high dpi on XFCE, and most suggested to try Gnome 3 or KDE... And what would that accomplish? Gnome and KDE both suck atm. For different reasons. So, maybe the dpi problem would be solved, but he would have to face other problems instead...
      A lot of people like Gnome, and although I don't use it, I'd hardly say it "sucks", especially when one is comparing it to the windows or mac DEs. OSX is certainly more polished, but wayland/mir will make linux every bit as smooth as apple's Quartz. I'm not sure how one could outright say KDE "sucks", considering KDE can be configured to look/function/behave however you like, and it's objectively fast and stable.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      There is no single DE that is both usable/stable and powerful/feature-complete enough.
      KDE, Gnome, and Unity all are, if properly configured.

      And appearence-wise, ALL suck.[/quote]

      Looks are subjective. With OSX you have exactly 1 look to choose from, and 2 dock positions, and that's pretty much it. Windows is a bit better for customization, but the default look is pretty lame. In any case, linux DEs like KDE and Gnome can be customized to look like anything. There are themes to make Linux look exactly like windows 8, if for some unknown reason you find that look appealing.

      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
      Linux as a main desktop is inadequate. It is only for experimenting, hacking, hobby puproses.
      Is that why it's used in hollywood and in industry/aerospace on the desktop? Is that why google uses it as their main corporate/development OS? Your statement is completely ridiculous with respect to "regular" users, too, because for the majority of people who just use the web browser and maybe email on their pc, linux offers a more stable, secure, responsive experience out of the box, when using something consumer friendly like ubuntu.


      • #78
        Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
        I am AMAZED about the amount of ignorance on this forum on all OSes and desktop environments. Linux doesn't suck at desktop usage - the problem is people don't step out of their comfort zones, and they don't realize there isn't any 1-size-fits-all. I use LXDE on an ARM platform, XFCE on my laptop, KDE on my desktop, and if I had a tablet I'd happily put GNOME 3 on it. You will find that my arrangements have had a lot of thought and tweaking put into them to maximize their usage while being the most efficient environment for the hardware platform I put them on.
        I spent many years trying to run Linux as a primary desktop system and can say without qualification that the above is pure baloney. It might be passable for a simpleton but if you demand a lot from your systems Linux simply sucks.

        I'm not here to be bragging about myself, my point in this is to say that anyone who THINKS that linux is bad at being a desktop OS, anyone who THINKS that 1 DE is (in a user perspective) worse than another, is detrimentally arrogant.
        Not at all, my position comes from plenty of experience with Linux, Mac OS and even Windows. Given a choice for a primary desktop/laptop machine I'd choose a Mac every time. That has nothing to do with arrogance but mostly focuses on the trouble free nature of the Mac.

        If you really want a comfortable user interface, go use Windows - nobody is stopping you. But just because YOU can't spend a few minutes tweaking an interface to behave the way you want it to, it doesn't give you the right to claim the whole thing is bad. If you're unable to tweak it to your desires, you're using it for the wrong reasons!!!
        I spent years trying to get a rational Linux desktop environment, it wasn't happening. I still run Linux but it will be a very long time before I switch over to Linux as a primary desktop system. Mac OS was light years ahead of the rest of the field in 2008 and has gotten dramatically better in the last couple of years. It is a great place to get work done.

        Anyway, Michael, you can always install Mac on your new laptop, if you're willing to spend the time to do so. I've got retail versions of Mac (with only a modified kernel) to install on AMD systems, I'd imagine an intel-based laptop would be much easier.
        Here in lies the problem, who in the hell would mess around with his money making system like that? It is great that Michael does all these low level hardware reviews but if he where to go the route you suggest I would think he has lost his mind. Michael and most professionals simply can't afford to mess around with the money maker like that!


        • #79
          Originally posted by jukkan View Post
          That's an universal truth, no OS does everything very well. However, for the average person with consumerish use cases, like watching netflix or playing the newest Battlefield, Windows is the obvious choice. To a software developer, Linux could be the obvious choice because of the good availability of tools. At this point the only OS that has good dpi scaling is OSX.
          I am not watching Netflix, but I think it is possible to do that on Linux with Pipelight. Regarding Battlefield and games, this is probably different between generations. None of my friends, or people I know play games. Some were doing it before, but with years one gets responsibilities, familliy, and has a hard time for real hoby. Games are out of the question (except 5 minutes for 'The most wanted, or Shark evolution : )), on android'). As a matter of fact, I know a lot of students, and most of them do not play games also. So a lot of them would be perfectly fine with linux, but they got windows preinstalled, and they simply don't care. Some have switched, and are still happy.


          • #80
            Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
            Here in lies the problem, who in the hell would mess around with his money making system like that? It is great that Michael does all these low level hardware reviews but if he where to go the route you suggest I would think he has lost his mind. Michael and most professionals simply can't afford to mess around with the money maker like that!
            I'd argue that professionals hire IT professionals whose job is to mess around with the money maker for them.


            • #81
              Wow, what's going on here? I didn't know users here thought so poorly of Linux as a desktop. I switched to Linux exclusively along with the rest of my family over a year ago and didn't have a single problem anywhere -- still don't have any problems, user experience is just exponentially growing lately. I can't think of a single thing that Linux can't do better than any other OS, besides gaming.


              • #82
                Nothing to see here people. If you want a linux laptop buy one that the manufacturer supports linux on it officially. Not something with windows and expect it to work flawlessly after installing linux.

                Alternatively you can live with the shortcomings of this.


                • #83
                  five pcs

                  five pcs in the house (4laptops) all with linux, no windows, ubuntu, manjaro and arch, all working well. i see a lot of stupid guys in this forum every day, but today wtf, is simply to much, well i go play dota 2 and stop loosing time with users who say every day "linux rock" but their OS is not linux


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by chrisb View Post
                    XFCE is actually one of the better desktops for hidpi, (…), but the lack of an OpenGL compositor is causing huge problems with tearing on recent laptops (Sandy Bridge onwards require a compositor that does page-flipping otherwise there will be tearing - there is a "tearfree" option in xorg but it impacts performance, and I don't think that any distributions enable it).
                    Compton doesn’t work? I use it to get a tear-free desktop and videos, but I have a first gen Core i3.

                    And yes Xfce is by far the best DE.


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                      Nothing to see here people. If you want a linux laptop buy one that the manufacturer supports linux on it officially. Not something with windows and expect it to work flawlessly after installing linux.

                      Alternatively you can live with the shortcomings of this.
                      "Shortcomings" being what, exactly? This article is about Michael not liking XFCE's DPI settings and the fact that peripherals require cables. Whether or not the battery time is different is yet to be determined.

                      And plenty of laptops work flawlessly after installing Linux, you just need to be aware of the hardware specs and possibly also the firmware. Of course, if you don't want to do that, then yes, choosing a preinstalled computer makes the most sense.


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by leech View Post
                        I went ahead and quoted this. Simply because it's so very true. I'm going to add to it, that it's not just a Windows/Linux/Mac thing. I recently 'upgraded' my phone from a Nokia N9 to a Samsung Galaxy Note 3. After about a day, I've decided that once I can get my Sim card back out of the Note 3, I'm just going to use it for testing out Android software and maybe writing some for it, and using my N9 as my main phone. It's just better in every way, except hardware. Which means of course that it's the software that stinks. I'll probably end up putting Sailfish on it, if someone can get that working.

                        But on the note of scammy-looking third party software. It's horrible on Android as well as Windows. EVERYTHING is freaking ad supported. Unless you want to fork out the dough, but most of the 'apps' that I use are pretty typically just little free ones that shouldn't need access to all of my information, and shouldn't need to pull advertisements in constantly. Sure there were a few ad-supported bits of software for the N9, but the majority of them were just awesome.

                        But the usability of Android drives me NUTS! After having Harmattan MeeGo and it's slick three screen setup, Android is like going back to my Atari ST days, where if you wanted a semi-decent desktop experience, you had to install one of the replacement desktops, which of course ate far more memory, and tended to crash back to the built-in ROM most of the time anyhow.

                        That's the same feeling I get whenever I load up Windows 7 or Windows 8 after being in Gnome for so long. Gnome is a simple, elegant UI that stays out of your way for the most part, and lets you work in your applications. I think that the biggest "Gnome-Shell sucks!" complaints is that the shortcuts need to be more obvious. But the very same could be said about Windows 8.x. Hell, I still only know of one way to close applications, and that's by using the trusty Alt+F4.

                        Which brings me back again to Android. You have to hold the damned Home button down to bring up a task list? Then scroll up and down to select the task to switch... Or if you swipe apps left or right they will close (TouchWiz from what I've read added the little "close all apps" button, which is nice.) Freaking annoying and out of the way.

                        The beautiful N9 on the other hand. You swipe to the left and you have your tasks screen, press and hold on the screen and there are little X buttons on the upper right of the live window boxes. Or you can press the close all. Then just press done. It's also far more intuitive, in my mind, to scroll up and down for the application list. At least I finally found how to change that on TouchWiz. I've tried other launchers/Home screens, and they all seem to be rather buggy. In fact, that's been my impression with most of the software for Android. In fact, at one point I had removed 'Lookout' and then the lock screen and settings would constantly crash.

                        So yeah, just because something becomes mainstream, and people get used to all the weird random issues with them, then accept them as "that's how things are supposed to work" and then the underdog ones end up making better overall user experiences, they are shit because "well, I don't know how to use that, and little things are breaking! Waaaah! I'll go back to Windows because when I whine about Linux, they tell me just to go back to Windows anyhow!" Truth usually is, these type of people are almost impossible to help, because they go in with "well it sucks didn't work like I am used to." so there is no way to convince them otherwise. My mother is that way. I set up a dual-boot on her laptop, and she hardly goes into Linux because "well, I don't know how to work it." I have showed her how, but she's old and forgetful, so it doesn't really stick.

                        I agree with others, Michael should probably dump (X)Ubuntu and just go with Debian, and then from there decide on a shinier DE. Though I will say it's funny he says that Ubuntu has worse fan/battery performance on that laptop. On my HP Touchsmart (granted it's pretty old now in computer years) Windows 8.1 almost constantly leaves the fan on, and Linux the fan is silent unless I'm doing something CPU intensive. Android-x86 is somewhere in between. Surprisingly enough, Android on the tablet is a lot nicer than it is on my Note3. If only I could get the touchscreen to work, been looking into that, but everything else works, including screen rotation.

                        Ah, that was a long rant, that's what happens when you become unemployed. Cheers!
                        First, why Debian? Why not arch, fedora, suse, or any of the other major distros?
                        Second, you complain about apps being ad supported but then also complain about having to pay for apps in order to avoid ads? You can certainly avoid both by only installing oss apps (there are plenty of those... I seem to recall an
                        app store that provided such), but, if you can afford it, just pay for the apps.
                        Third, someone needs to explain to me how harmattan is better than android. I know there are tons of qt/nokia fans who loved this phone (well, not limited to just those people but, from my observations, they're the majority) but what, exactly, about android is getting in your way?
                        Fourth, I use gs as my primary de but I don't understand this obsessive refrain of it"getting out of your way". Maybe I've not used the"right"environments but I haven't noticed them getting in my way unless you're talking about them not allowing me to work in the most efficient way.


                        • #87
                          Of course XFCE doesn't work that great on newer hidpi hardware considering its barely maintained anymore. Its last official release was nearly 2 years ago.


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by calc View Post
                            Of course XFCE doesn't work that great on newer hidpi hardware considering its barely maintained anymore. Its last official release was nearly 2 years ago.
                            Many individual components of Xfce have been updated since then.

                            Itís wonderful that you registered just to post FUD.


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by stqn View Post
                              Many individual components of Xfce have been updated since then.

                              Itís wonderful that you registered just to post FUD.
                              You of course realize 4.11.x is still in pre alpha state and 4.10 was released 2 years ago, right?

                              I obviously can't post urls yet so look at the main site page and the 4.12 roadmap.


                              • #90
                                My favourites right now are:
                                #1: Openbox (see Crunchbang)
                                #2: Unity (see Ubuntu)
                                Note, unity is in a transition period or in other words a bit of an awkward stage.
                                #3: Gnome 3 (see Fedora)
                                Bonus: Cinnamon (see Linux Mint)
                                For those who like Windows style.

                                Although something I miss from KDE is the multiple audio volume control. That was nice. Soon I think I'm going to make a 90% Transition over to Linux because of the amount of things in Windows that have been breaking. I was one of those people that installed the windows 8 Steelseries RAW gaming mouse driver on Windows 8.1 (the version for Windows 8.1 hadn't been released yet) and it destroyed my OS like nothing else. It simply would not boot, would not restore and would not repair. That was just one of many examples.