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Shuttleworth Closes Bug #1, Microsoft's Market Share

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  • #31
    He should have rather closed it as "Won't fix". This would be more diplomatic and he would have gained better predispositions to join forces with MS - what appears to be his aim anyways. But it seems he lacks even this :/

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by John123 View Post
      Hi there,

      Letter not for ADD folks.

      I've been tracking what some major graphics companies have been doing for some time now and the state is appalling, not only for any Linux kernel based distribution, but for everyone.

      First the Nvidia goes on war with that Intel graphics based on P III (amazing performance),that requires SLI by refusing the patents or license, so Intel won't compete with Nvidia in corporate segement. Intel responses to Nvidia (and thus AMD) by "attaching" the graphics to the CPU, which basically means Nvidia (and AMD) have to reverse engineer Intel graphics and the drivers (on any OS), which is illegal. That means Nvidia or AMD are forbidden to provide proper drivers for their own product, thus making them not to perform at full capabilites and always being crappy. All pictures or videos have to go through Intel CPU/GPU in the end.

      That means that the Nvidia or AMD graphics are at best of a second sort. Moreover it questions the legality of their dirvers, because for example on laptops with Windows- AMD provides unassigned Intel graphics drivers inside subfolder of subfolder of their own driver. If they don't AMDs graphic will not work at all. Not only that- they cannot do it legally so they don't offer drivers for laptops on their support website. They make the vendors like HP and DELL to do that, thus making the drivers extreme old and buggy for the laptops these vendors sell. And HP or DELL are absolutely in no interest or position to change it. Why would they? The product is out and sold. The money is in the bank account. Who cares!

      Moreover. It got to the point that even Windows users know now what graphic power management and sync to vblank is. It was unheard of a few years back.

      Another thing is that Nvidia is not intersted in doing the drivers for any platform. First its the same stroy as with AMD: making drivers is a cost. Once GPU is out, nobody cares. Drivers do not generate sales. Only framerates and demos on computer shows/fairs. But reality is different. And they get the money elsewhere.

      For example Nivia recently build a complete new system from scratch that is selling very well. It functions as a game streaming service so people can play games on thin clients and everything is rendered on that system. If they make tons of money by selling content (royalties, like 3 dollars of every game title that is rendered on that machines) they will make amazing money. So why would they need any drivers for some shitty laptops? Why would they hire bunch of programmers, when they hire two and they make the drivers for their system. The system that makes the money, not the laptops that don't. They may be selling GPUs to vendors, yes- that makes money, but the drivers don't. And once the hardware is out it does not generate any revenue stream. So why generate additional post sale cost? No f... way.


      So will Linux based distros receive working graphic drvers? Ever?. No! Who cares about sync to vblank for Linux (and now even for Windows!!!). Keep dreaming about waylands, mirrs or desktop acceleration. It ain't gonna happen. Never. Linux is a post sale cost. There has never been a proper support, there always was video and desktop tearing for nvidia, complete lack of working drivers for AMD and shit for Intel working 3 times slower than on Windows and without OpenCL, wich renders programms like GIMP 2.8.x unstartable on Intel machines. Pair it with non working AMD and you're out. Not to mention VAAPIs, NVDPAUs and other stuff like renering videos on GPU. Keep dreaming.


      PS. And now Linux got that amazing gift from Intel, called UEFI and awesome present from Microsoft called Banned Boot without USB. Hoorraaay!
      I dunno for how long have you been using linux, but right now AMD open source driver is in a really good state. The problem of one driver conflicting with the other drivers is a windows thing, in linux they have no need to reverse engineer the intel drivers... So, your points are wrong, from the linux side of things, I think. In fact, hardware vendors could promote linux based on this, they would all gain...

      On topic: I'm not sure the bug should have been closed. The bug is about linux on the desktop, and the arguments to close it talk about the usage in devices other than laptop/desktop computers... now, we know that desktop computers are on the decline, but that doesn't mean they dissapeared, not yet.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        Seems the Stallman fans are alive and well. It's nice to see how these freedom above all idiot crowd doesn't realise that most people in the world actually like and use Office and it would help Ubuntu if they made it work on it.
        Office is fine if thats what you need your the one making idiotic statements about hoping they make a Linux port but invest time limiting it to Ubuntu.

        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        You poor open source fanbois don't know there is a world beyond your basement. A world with more money than you can count. And if you want some of that pie you don't rebel against the system and take your toys and go home. You learn to play the game.
        There is no problem making money off open source it even says you have the right to in the GPL. So for the millionth time educated yourself rather than making stupid comments.

        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        Anyway it's nice to see how open source goes to shit when big corporations start to use that word without actually meaning it. People on the street will think of you even more lowly. And you basement dwellers will probably think it's unfair and that they don't play by your stupid rules. And cry. Cause they have the billions and you can't to jack shit about it.
        This is a licensing issue nothing to do with being open source or not. GPL means they have a legal requirement to open source the code. Most other licences basically say its up to the company whether they contiune to or not. With most of these licences companies choose to open source because it makes sense financially to them. Why develop and maintain everything in house by yourself when you can get other companies to help out, come on this is an economic issue surely even you can grasp that advantage of open source since you seem to value money above all else.

        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        I'm really looking forward to Windows 8.1 which will bring back the start button. It will probably shave off half of your stupid 'community'.
        Lol, you love closed source software so much yet you are look forward to an update that makes a change that would never be an issue with open source surely you can see the irony here.
        So when Winblows 8.1 comes out will you finally get a life and leave these forums or will we still be forced to listen to your basement dweller troll drivel.

        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        The only reason why linux has made a few inroads is because Microsoft has been stumbling and making bad decisions left and right. But if they were to make a full force comeback the linux desktop would be forever doomed. And save the bullshit about how the linux kernel is so superior to anything in existence...
        Another one for the Bo$$ translator:
        "bullshit" = "truth"

        Windows has not offered anything compellingly new since Windows XP this is why linux has made inroads. There is no need for Windows anymore.
        Last edited by timothyja; 05-31-2013, 12:05 AM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by asdfblah View Post
          I dunno for how long have you been using linux, but right now AMD open source driver is in a really good state.
          Surprisingly so. I installed it on my Sony Vaio which has a lowish end 4000 series Mobility Radeon recently as I got sick of grappling with the Catalyst Legacy drivers and downgrading Xorg. Not only do I swear power management has improved (fans still run a little louder than Catalyst, but temps were fine) but HD playback, playing Team Fortress 2 etc worked surprisingly well (15-30 fps on High, I didn't even try tweaking it). I didn't even expect the latter to run.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by RealNC View Post
            This is just Canonical preparing the bed sheets for Microsoft. I wonder what kind of deal between them is coming.
            If you can't beat'em, join'em = Microsoft Office 2014 running on Ubuntu Mir natively. MS gets to take over the world again and make another 100B dollars. Then they can really close bug #1, in the most literal sense.

            Or maybe it's just a bad dream I'm having.
            Last edited by MartinN; 05-31-2013, 02:35 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
              Seems the Stallman fans are alive and well. It's nice to see how these freedom above all idiot crowd doesn't realise that most people in the world actually like and use Office and it would help Ubuntu if they made it work on it. And yes closed source works. Nobody will show you their sources just because you want them to. It's good that Google didn't force anyone to go open source or else there would have been only 3 shitty applications ported from Slackware most probably.

              You poor open source fanbois don't know there is a world beyond your basement. A world with more money than you can count. And if you want some of that pie you don't rebel against the system and take your toys and go home. You learn to play the game.

              Anyway it's nice to see how open source goes to shit when big corporations start to use that word without actually meaning it. People on the street will think of you even more lowly. And you basement dwellers will probably think it's unfair and that they don't play by your stupid rules. And cry. Cause they have the billions and you can't to jack shit about it.

              I'm really looking forward to Windows 8.1 which will bring back the start button. It will probably shave off half of your stupid 'community'.

              The only reason why linux has made a few inroads is because Microsoft has been stumbling and making bad decisions left and right. But if they were to make a full force comeback the linux desktop would be forever doomed. And save the bullshit about how the linux kernel is so superior to anything in existence...
              Get a load of this guy.

              Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

              Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by dee. View Post
                Get a load of this guy.

                Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

                Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.
                Well said sir.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by John123 View Post
                  So will Linux based distros receive working graphic drvers? Ever?. No! Who cares about sync to vblank for Linux (and now even for Windows!!!). Keep dreaming about waylands, mirrs or desktop acceleration. It ain't gonna happen. Never. Linux is a post sale cost. There has never been a proper support, there always was video and desktop tearing for nvidia, complete lack of working drivers for AMD and shit for Intel working 3 times slower than on Windows and without OpenCL, wich renders programms like GIMP 2.8.x unstartable on Intel machines. Pair it with non working AMD and you're out. Not to mention VAAPIs, NVDPAUs and other stuff like renering videos on GPU. Keep dreaming.
                  Ok... first of all, GIMP 2.8 doesn't use the GPU for rendering. It doesn't use OpenCL or OpenGL, the support for GPU-side rendering is coming to GIMP in 2.10 at earliest. So if you're having problems starting GIMP, the problem is not about GPU drivers.

                  Secondly, GIMP 2.8.x (like any other version of GIMP) starts just fine on both of my machines, one of which has (crappy) intel graphics, the other nvidia. Also, on both my computers, GPU drivers work just fine, no problems at all. I've never seen any tearing.

                  I think you possibly are mistaken about some things.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dee. View Post
                    Get a load of this guy.

                    Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

                    Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.
                    Wow, some classic smack-down action here.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      It's great that they got people from Microsoft on board. Stop with the paranoia bullshit. That guy knows his stuff. And it's good that now he's on Canonical's side. Good things will come.
                      Right, just like so many good things came to Nokia when they tried that.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by brosis View Post
                        LOL! You are like girl! I need a vocabulary to translate you!
                        Disassembling "BO$$":
                        What BOSS says = What he means

                        "No" = "Yes"
                        "Yes" = "No"
                        "Genius move" = "Huge trouble"
                        "* great" = "* will be catastrophe"
                        "* perfect" = "* huge mistake"
                        "Fuck that" = "Very compelling project"
                        "POS" = "killer software"
                        "Shit" = "works very well, very impressive"
                        "big plus" = "huge minus"
                        "closed source" = "microsoft and goons"
                        "make money" = "lie, lie, lie, li-ke me"
                        "Idealism" = "Freedom"



                        +1 to that, plus he should take birdie, ворот93, sonadow, that guy - with him; quite a collection of microsoft turfers we have here. : )
                        This was a great guide how to make more sense of what he writes.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                          It would be a genius move! Hopefully it will happen. Office on Ubuntu would be great. Fuck that LibreOffice POS.
                          [...]
                          Especially if it works. Most people are used to Office. Getting it on Ubuntu would be great. A great blow would be if they got a way of making it work only on Ubuntu and not any other distro. Ubuntu would skyrocket while the rest would...well... nothing
                          I moved to GNU/Linux and FOSS to retain ownership of my data and control over my computer. So having my documents stored in a closed format on someone else's server "somewhere out there" now would be really disingenuous.
                          That might sound great in the short term and very convenient, but I've learnt my lesson with all the bait & switch tactics from microsoft.
                          No thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            So will Linux based distros receive working graphic drvers? Ever?. No!
                            My drivers are fine (nvidia).

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            Who cares about sync to vblank for Linux (and now even for Windows!!!).
                            Forcing vsync works for me. On top of that, vsync adds latency, it sucks for games.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            Keep dreaming about waylands, mirrs or desktop acceleration.
                            If Mir gets actual market share, it will get drivers, no doubt.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            It ain't gonna happen. Never. Linux is a post sale cost. There has never been a proper support,
                            There has.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            there always was video and desktop tearing for nvidia,
                            Not for me; you're doing it wrong.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            complete lack of working drivers for AMD
                            Not only radeon works quite well on HD5000/HD6000s (minus power management), catalyst is getting better and better these days. I've never tried it though.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            and shit for Intel working 3 times slower than on Windows and without OpenCL,
                            Few people care about OpenCL, also, the driver is "only" 15% slower. Not 3 times slower.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            wich renders programms like GIMP 2.8.x unstartable on Intel machines.
                            OpenCL isn't a requirement for GIMP.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            Pair it with non working AMD and you're out.
                            See three lines above. Also, it isn't AMD's fault -- their CPUs are fine.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            Not to mention VAAPIs, NVDPAUs and other stuff like renering videos on GPU.
                            It works for me (your problem if you use Flash).

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            Keep dreaming.
                            no u.

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            PS. And now Linux got that amazing gift from Intel, called UEFI
                            You know any decent mobo lets you boot in BIOS mode?

                            Originally posted by John123 View Post
                            and awesome present from Microsoft called Banned Boot without USB. Hoorraaay!
                            It's their problem -- disabling Secure Boot isn't hard.

                            PS: by the way, I noticed you posted the exact same thing here: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...919#post333919
                            Aren't you the guy who has an HD4670 by the way?
                            Last edited by Calinou; 05-31-2013, 08:40 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Grow up

                              Nice to see this bug is finaly closed. This means Canonical is growing up. Keep up the good work !!!

                              Next bug I would like to see closed is the one where some of te Phoronix forum-members start to grow up :-)
                              To many people jelling and shouting without telling something rational.

                              Sorry for my bad English, I think you understand my point ;-)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                                Yes and you're that 10 year old boy who thinks he can change the world by rebelling against everything and somehow emerging victorious. The same type of guy who gets to 30 and gets fucked by the world and thinks that there is something wrong with it instead of admitting that he is the one in the wrong. See the Microsoft development model works. It seems like the people buy their software.
                                I'm... that 10 year old who thinks... wait, what? Do you know many 10 year olds who actually think like that, or... did you just have to get to call me a 10-year old too, in a sort of "no YOU" way? You know, on account of you having too little imagination or intelligence to think of anything remotely original to say... kind of like a 10-year old.

                                But I'll let that slide. You're saying you don't think there's anything wrong with the world, seriously? It's all just business as usual? What a lovely, remarkably sociopathic view of of the world you have. It suits so well that kid who always brown-noses the bullies and laughs along with the crowd whenever some poor smaller guy is targeted... instead of sticking up for the weaker guys, you enjoy being part of the lynch mob... because your dad has probably taught you that you have to be "ruthless" to "make it in the world" or some shit like that, right?

                                Oh, by the way... The Microsoft model works so well that their stock is tanking and their latest product (windows ache) is a flop even worse than vista. The only reason they're in the position they are is because they have basically lied, cheated, stolen, done whatever dirty tricks they can to get on the top... but hey, you actually admire that, right? You think it's great to be able to cheat and steal. It shows that you're strong. Just like your daddy wanted you to be.

                                The open source people are idiots (not all of them but a vast majority) because they refuse to see the truth. Their development model doesn't fucking work. Whenever anything gets even remotely popular they fork it and start doing their own thing resulting in even more fragmentation which confuses the end user who says fuck it and goes back to windows.
                                Fascinating. Do you actually believe these things or are you just spouting off whatever you can think off? It's such a remarkably delusional view, there's got to be a fair bit of a reality distortion field at work there...

                                What now you gonna argue that windows actually does not own the desktop market and that linux is the way to go? Seriously? It's a fact that Microsoft makes more money than anything Red Hat. See they must be doing something right. Instead of complaining maybe it's time to emulate them. The ways of getting into power haven't changed for the last few thousand years and they're not gonna change just now just because you want them to. That is your main issue right there. You think this time it's gonna be different. And as long as most open source people think like that they have no chance of success.

                                You and I both know you are lying. Stop spewing bullshit. If you could make money selling open source products how come most companies haven't jumped on this ship. Why doesn't Oracle open source their database? And don't tell me cause they're stupid. That only means you are stupid.
                                How sad. Just very, very sad.

                                I'm getting too sad thinking about you, Boss, and how sad your life must be. I'm going to have to take my leave of this thread.

                                Comment

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