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Netflix Open Connect Network: FreeBSD, Not Linux

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  • #31
    I think we can all agree: BSD sucks.
    No, I don't think we can.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
      I don't believe they evaluated Linux. They sound like old FreeBSD friends and they were probably using it all the time. Furthermore, their announcement sounds very strange (like attack on Linux) and makes impression they prefer to support Linux competition. While they're using MS tech like Silverlight and FreeBSD is very MS friendly I wouldn't be surprised if MS has something to do with this.
      FreeBSD serving some serious data? That seems about right. HPC appliances like Panasas blades run FreeBSD to push 40 gigabit infiniband traffic. Do you really think these guys are "Good ole boys?" That would make for an interesting comparison: Lustre versus Panasas.

      Yeah, MS embracing FreeBSD ... right. What about the Novell pact they have? Remember those 30 some odd Microsoft patents Linux violates (EDIT: allegedly)? If you sign with SuSE you're immune! How about Moonlight and Mono (which are open source)?

      FreeBSD is very friendly in general.
      Last edited by nslay; 06-07-2012, 12:48 AM.

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      • #33
        While I am not a fan of the BSD license or Netflix, I will say that I for one will not be joining in the BSD bashing. It is stupid and counterproductive.

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        • #34
          I would just like to point out to all those complaining about Netflix's use of Silverlight and DRM, that the reason for that is because it's mandated by the film studios.

          Netflix would naturally love to be as accessible to as many customers as possible, however, there's no use supporting open platforms if they can't provide the content at all.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mcirsta View Post
            It's not like FreeBSD doesn't work, it probably does but let's be honest here. They didn't choose FreeBSD based on technical merit alone, they chose it because of the license which allows them to do whatever the heck they want. Linux is far more mature and I'm sure would have required less work but companies like Netflix like to keep their proprietary stuff safe which the BSD license guarantees.
            Anyway I'm still going to use Linux and that famous bay , I hear it has free, no DRM movies ...
            Competition in general though is not bad so bring it on FreeBSD ... so far compared to Linux I'm not impressed at all.
            That seems to be true according to their response:

            Linux works wonderfully on EC2 for our C&C and computational tasks, FreeBSD is proving to work well on deployed hardware for serving bits. It highly maintainable, and there's an excellent community supporting it.
            Arguments like maintainable and excellent community aren't used in conjunction to Linux.

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            • #36
              Linux is great.
              FreeBSD is great.

              Linux is open source, and FreeBSD is open source.
              They are both open source. So they are open source friends!

              Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
              This is the drawback as I see it with BSD and corporate use, there is very little incentive to release code back which your competitors can use without them doing the same. This means these companies will likely fund FreeBSD development as the 'common base' on which to build their optimized solutions, optimizations which likely never make it back since that would be like handing your competitors an advantage.
              Getting your patched merged upstreams is great, because it makes it easier to maintain since you don't have to re-patch every new release, and fix patches when they break.

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              • #37
                Welcome!

                Originally posted by brad0 View Post
                The same old Linux morons in this forum as usual.
                And the one new BSD moron. Welcome!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by stefanlasiewski View Post
                  Netflix's decision to use FreeBSD for their CDN was based on the technical merits of FreeBSD and because the engineers in charge of that project like FreeBSD. It's a great operating system with solid performance. It just doesn't have the mindshare of Linux-based operating systems. I use FreeBSD and Linux-based distros, and each have their strength and weaknesses.

                  In addition, Netflix uses plenty of Linux. Just look at the job descriptions for the open positions.
                  Liking something or not aren't technical merits. When comes to technical merits they didn't really mention a single one. It's not more solid and faster than Linux, so their reasons must be different (like their experience in FreeBSD you already mentioned).

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Halio1984 View Post
                    Guy's really? Why does it seem like every time there is a story about FreeBSD there is a bunch of Linux fan boy's screaming how crappy it is. Yea maybe it doesn't have the fan base that Linux has but but I bet if look closely you'll find a lot of products that you interface with that use FreeBSD code. Aside from the fact that most of you are using MAC's that are running OSX right? guess what that's actually based on FreeBSD. Anyone heard of Juniper, JunOS? yea that's FreeBSD based. Cisco and NetApp both use a large amount of FreeBSD code in their product. If you move on from FreeBSD to the other BSD's you'll find a lot of code has move into Linux from the BSD community. OpenSSH is a product of OpenBSD community. And what, a couple of years ago some Linux programmers were trying to re-brand the a wireless driver that the OpenBSD community wrote? So the next time you feel get the urge to sit there and go BSD sux, BSD sux, BSD sux, please do us all a favor. Take your laptop outside and put 7 .45 hollow point rounds into it and take up farming because all your doing is waisting our time and showing you don't deserve all the work that our open source fore barres have provided. For the rest of us maybe it's time to look at FreeBSD again and see what Netfilx, Yahoo, Cisco, Juniper, and Apple are seeing.
                    This is just a proof FreeBSD doesn't serve community, but companies. Why would any sane dev from FreeBSD camp would be proud of supporting closed source operating systems BSD license allows us to do what we want, so next time when someone takes BSD code just shut up. You should be proud Linux took an Atheros driver from you the same as you're proud when OS X and Windows uses your code. The only thing I wish from you is to serve us better.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                      Linux is great.
                      FreeBSD is great.

                      Linux is open source, and FreeBSD is open source.
                      They are both open source. So they are open source friends!
                      That's a whole of bullshit. They were never friends. Linux is friendly to Open Source Community. FreeBSD uses anti-community license which mainly serves companies and closed products. MS and Apple are laughing from idiots who think Linux and BSD have the same purpose and goals. Their Open Source is much different.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by nslay View Post
                        FreeBSD serving some serious data? That seems about right. HPC appliances like Panasas blades run FreeBSD to push 40 gigabit infiniband traffic. Do you really think these guys are "Good ole boys?" That would make for an interesting comparison: Lustre versus Panasas.

                        Yeah, MS embracing FreeBSD ... right. What about the Novell pact they have? Remember those 30 some odd Microsoft patents Linux violates (EDIT: allegedly)? If you sign with SuSE you're immune! How about Moonlight and Mono (which are open source)?

                        FreeBSD is very friendly in general.
                        I don't see what you're trying to say here. They simply don't exist in HPC, so stop kidding. Yes, MS, Apple and any other company that's anti Linux. Novell is just a part of Linux and we know Novell sucks. It doesn't really matter if Moonlight (which seems to be dead now) and Mono are Open Source. Their made by MS fanboy or employee Icaza. No, they're usually friendly to MS and Apple, but hostile to Linux and real Open Source community.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                          Sounds like you need better lawyers, it's quite clear that GPL only affects distribution of binary code, this is the very reason FSF added another licence (AGPL) which prevents this should the code author not want to allow the 'application service provider' loophole (used by Google and many others) which exists in GPL. But it's up to the code author to explicitly prevent this by choosing AGPL (or any other licence which prevents this).
                          You are a technical person. Try explaining to a judge and/or jury who's technology experience consists of Facebook that installing compiled software on a set of servers ISN'T distribution. Maybe they'd get it, maybe not, but it's not a risk they were willing to take.

                          GPL has existed for over 20 years and the only lawsuits brought against offenders have been those who have distributed GPL-licenced _binary_ code without providing the source code.
                          You mean the only people who have been caught. Just because there isn't a cop gunning doesn't make going 15 mph over the speed limit legal either.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                            I don't see what you're trying to say here. They simply don't exist in HPC, so stop kidding. Yes, MS, Apple and any other company that's anti Linux. Novell is just a part of Linux and we know Novell sucks. It doesn't really matter if Moonlight (which seems to be dead now) and Mono are Open Source. Their made by MS fanboy or employee Icaza. No, they're usually friendly to MS and Apple, but hostile to Linux and real Open Source community.
                            Nobody is kidding here. Just because you don't see FreeBSD on HPC doesn't mean it's not there. FreeBSD runs on Panasas blades and serves the high performance PanFS to Linux clients over infiniband. It's strong evidence that it's extremely capable of pushing serious data ... and that's exactly what Netflix does except that it doesn't use 40 gigabit low latency connections.

                            Novell and Panasas serve as big gaping holes in your silly conspiracy theory.

                            What you call the "real open source community" is hostile to anyone and anything not ascribing to GPL, even if it is also open source.

                            Ever give away any of your old stuff and say, "Well, it has to be used this way and that way" ... that's the kind freedom GPL offers. You can have my old shorts as long as you wear it with a black or blue shirt and they must be the same brand.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by locovaca View Post
                              You are a technical person. Try explaining to a judge and/or jury who's technology experience consists of Facebook that installing compiled software on a set of servers ISN'T distribution. Maybe they'd get it, maybe not, but it's not a risk they were willing to take.
                              Not sure what you mean by 'they', Google and Facebook tons of others provide these services-online while not opening up their GPL-licenced modified linux versions they run in-house. I'd say they have pretty good lawyers which has done thorough interpretation on what their oblications are under GPL. Also FSF would not have created AGPL if they did not recognize that the GPL does not have any bearing on online services.

                              Originally posted by locovaca View Post
                              You mean the only people who have been caught. Just because there isn't a cop gunning doesn't make going 15 mph over the speed limit legal either.
                              Ehh, been caught? I'm not following, what else could they be 'caught' for other than not complying with the licence which they agreed on when distributing GPL-licenced code? It's simple, if you distribute binary code licenced under GPL you need to make the source code available to the recipients. If you do not then you are violating the agreement and can be sued for compliance.

                              Obviously very few GPL violations actually leads to a lawsuit, just like very few legal violations actually end up being penalized.
                              But since you are legally bound to supply source code when distributing binaries containing GPL licenced code, you as a rights-holder has the option of suing should someone use your GPL licenced code without complying with the licence.

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                              • #45
                                It's conceivable that some SaaS deployments could end up with copyright snags, if you're serving more than just a pure API. For example, a GUI might contain copyrighted elements, and if you served it as an HTML5 interface or something superficially similar (X/RFB/RDP), you could theoretically run afoul of copyright (via "broadcast" if nothing else). I'd think that would be an edge case, though, and I've never heard of it actually happening (and it seems like the press would make a big deal out of it considering the current hype about "cloud computing" and SaaS).

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