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Microsoft Windows 8: Mostly A Crap Wreck

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    One thing: Why do you use a DVD to install? If you use a recent system with UEFI you can simply put the content of the iso onto a fat32 usb key and boot it via UEFI mode. If you formatted the usb key using diskpart on win it would boot in mbr mode as well, if you formatted it on Linux you can simply use any bootloader of your choice with chainload support - for grub2 you use
    Code:
    ntldr /bootmgr
    boot
    for syslinux (syslinux.cfg) you use
    Code:
    default chain.c32 hd0,1 ntldr=/bootmgr
    The UEFI boot trick does not work directly with W7 as you need to replace the bootx64.efi first (the default does not work with fat32). One other tricky thing is you can try with a FAST usb key/hd is Win8 to Go:

    http://tweaks.com/windows/52279/how-...-go-usb-drive/

    The funny thing is: you dont need imagex, you can use 7z on linux as well to extract, but you still need to run bcdboot on win (maybe you can get the 32 bit version running with wine, no idea). It worked relatively well to boot from the usb key on different systems, just too slow with my old 16 gb usb key
    With such user friendliness, I wonder how come there aren't many children using Linux

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kano View Post
      One thing about the "bootspeed": it would be very wise to disable hibernate support when you want to use dual/multiboot. W8 is not booted the normal way usually, it is just suspended. Poweroff is now a synonym for suspend 2 disk until you do (in cmd with admin rights):
      Code:
      powercfg -h off
      I do that for any win installs as i always have got Linux on my hd(s) as well. So instead comparing "bootspeed" you should better compare suspend2disk speed
      Ha ha!

      So that's why it's "boot speed" is so good. It's not even booting the way we expect >.>

      I'd say Microsoft were "cheating" but, if it works, well so be it. Thanks for that info Kano. I now know why my Windows 8 refuses to shutdown.

      Everytime I'm finished with my computer I basically have to "restart" it and just press the power button once it hits the BIOS so it turns off completely. "Shut down", funnily enough, does the exact same thing as Sleep in my case... i.e it doesn't do anything, it just returns to the login screen. Obviously something isn't right with my install whether it be a bug or a hardware incompatibility, but now I know why Shut down and Sleep do the same thing

      EDIT: yes I know Sleep is probably suspend2ram and suspendtodisk (i.e hibernate and in this case, "shutdown") is different but I guess my Windows 8 just won't "suspend" full stop.
      Last edited by ElderSnake; 05-04-2012, 05:32 AM.

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      • #18
        I just thought I'd share my own personal experiances with Win8 CTP too. I'm a dual-booter and I develop applications in C/C++ for Linux and (mostly) in C# for Windows. I also use both OSs very actively as a user, not just as a developer. So as a (partially) Windows developer, I of course wanted to get earlier experiences with the new OS than my users

        From a user point of view, the only thing that set me back was also the Metro UI. I absolutely share my views with Michael here, the new UI is good for phones and tablets but a PITA for the desktop for me. I've also found myself often switching back and forth between the classic desktop and the Metro UI, which made the whole thing even worse. In case you're wondering, no, Metro and the classic desktop are not integrated with each other: You have to switch around using a special key combination if you actively use applications in both UIs, because Metro requires specially written applications to fully support it. You can also switch around using the mouse, but it took me literally minutes until I've finally found out how to go from Metro to my desktop. Anyway I'm surely going to avoid Metro as a user for now. On a separate note, I can second Windows 8's fast boot speed.

        As a developer, I wasn't expecting many breaking changes since on Windows I'm mainly devloping in C#. Though as XP->Vista and .Net CLR2->CLR4 migrations have both shown on multiple occasions, it is still possible to break .Net apps on system updates. Anyway, Win8 CTP was a pleasant surprise in this respect, since this time I had zero problems "porting" (well I can hardly call it porting if I had nothing to do ). The only thing I had to adjust was one of my InnoSetup installers. Of course applications developed for earlier Windows systems will not integrate with Metro (for that you'd have to start your UI programming anew from scratch as a developer), but they at least seem to work flawlessly for the desktop mode of Win8. Not just with my own apps, I also had no problems installing and using other applications from the internet. So a plus here for MS for keeping good compatibility with Windows 7.

        There is one thing though that I'd like to point out in Michaels article when he writes something like "Aside from some niche device areas and graphics drivers, the level of Linux hardware support is largely comparable to that of Windows." I wouldn't like to start a flame war here so I'm not going to elaborate on that (except if somebody explicitly asks me to), but I'd do like to mention that even though I'm a happy Linux user and all my HW works on Linux *currently*, I find Michaels original statement misleading.
        Last edited by ultimA; 05-04-2012, 05:39 AM.

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        • #19
          anyone who had windows 8 installed tried to copy over around 10+ GB of data from one partition to another (or different harddrive) ?

          when doing this with windows 7 all multi-tasking comes to a grinding halt

          it may have been firefox' issue but I doubt that, would be interesting if they improved the i/o scheduler, too or again only some minor changes here and there and lots of publicity

          at least next time I'll try it with chrome but I doubt that this would make a difference

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          • #20
            You'd need to turn off standby image mode to test real boot modes, as the trick maybe to create a sleep/standby image when shutting down sot hat it just loads the image when booting. This is not a desirable mode for IT people as it can churn over faults into other sessions.

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            • #21
              so.. will we have to add the power consumption at night when we make tests for energy efficiency?...
              what will it be like? I am usually turning off all electric things with a switch at night (which saves me about 0,21KWh each night for 30W stand-by usage) will there be a problem or will i have to use the tweak one mentioned earlier to reboot and kill him while still in "bios"?

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              • #22
                @bug77

                I have got a script to automate that, basically it supports kanotix isolinux (just like any debian live variants with isolinux), ubuntu and with a few extra lines win vista+. It is a piece of cake when you know what to do. But the cool thing is that you can even install GRUB2 onto ntfs... You can reuse your (existing) ntfs usb hds for Linux live boots as well with installed grub - or you can boot W8 To Go

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                • #23
                  I have had plenty of problems with AHCI and Windows, not so with Linux here I have even been able to switch it post install.

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                  • #24
                    Maybe they are refunding the interface to return to their roots:

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                    • #25
                      @AJenbo

                      I had issues with suspend2ram with UEFI (on Linux+Win) as well, needed firmware updates to fix that. Usually thats the best way if you can stell get those. BIOS mode worked somehow on my Q67 system. I think that will improve with new systems as Win 7/8 do not allow software workarounds so it has to work out of the box. Linux usually works then as well.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Khudsa View Post
                        Maybe they are refunding the interface to return to their roots:
                        Perfect. Mind if i share?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PeterKraus View Post
                          Perfect. Mind if i share?
                          It's not his. It's been floating around the net for a while now.

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                          • #28
                            I also take issue with some statements that would be seen as misleading. Linux support in kernel is vastly superior to windows. Yes you can install all those drivers from your disks and websites but since were talking about installing and booting I thought it relevant. Let's talk about Windows 8. I think it's a step in both directions the arm support is a serious step forward while the metro UI is "forcing" to say the least. I know I didn't like it but I don't like phone ui's either so I maybe the minority. 8 really needs cross-ui intergration and then I will consider it ready but after Windows 7 this seems a bit too much hassle.

                            I can't believe Gabe can't get a Gnu/Linux distro installation to work first try.. He must be a fa-king idiot or liar...

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                            • #29
                              Achtung!!!

                              You should be really careful when talking about windows power consumption on laptops. Last year the reference AMD Llano platform showed +8 hours on single charge, but almost all of the laptops based on Llano couldn't work more than 4-5 hours on batteries. As a matter of fact my Linux laptop lives longer on battery than any standard windows + AMD Llano laptop.

                              Although, I completely agree with your other conclusions.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nightmarex View Post
                                I also take issue with some statements that would be seen as misleading. Linux support in kernel is vastly superior to windows.
                                This is the delusion Michael mentions. It's not "superior." It's a different design philosophy. Windows does not put drivers in the kernel. Windows does not force you to install a new kernel just to update one driver. The Windows way of dealing with drivers is superior to Linux from the user perspective. The Linux way of dealing with drivers is superior from the kernel developer perspective. Linux does not provide a driver ABI like Windows does because it's too much work to maintain that ABI. Windows does shy away from that work because we *pay* them. They get paid to work and satisfy our demands. You can't *demand* anything from Linux kernel developers. You aren't paying them.

                                I can't believe Gabe can't get a Gnu/Linux distro installation to work first try.. He must be a fa-king idiot or liar...
                                And you must be dense, since he didn't say he can't get it to work. He said he can't get it to work with all his hardware working correctly. I believe him, since countless times I installed Linux on various machines only to have stuff like not getting any sound, plugging-in a USB microphone doing nothing and graphics drivers not supporting accelerated 3D or desktop effects.

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