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  • #31
    Originally posted by LightBit View Post
    I'm not sure for BSD, but Solaris doesn't overcommit memory. Reliable OS should never overcommit memory.
    Citation needed. I suppose there are reasons why people choose Linux instead of Solaris when comes to running critical workloads. It seems nearly everyone knows Linux is more reliable. Btw. Linux is not Solaris, so you can choose preferred behavior:


    echo [n] /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
      Citation needed. I suppose there are reasons why people choose Linux instead of Solaris when comes to running critical workloads. It seems nearly everyone knows Linux is more reliable. Btw. Linux is not Solaris, so you can choose preferred behavior:


      echo [n] /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory
      Citation: http://developers.sun.com/solaris/ar...ubprocess.html
      Maybe they choose it because most distributions are free. And it is popular.
      Overcommiting on Linux can't be fully disabled. It is also hard to find all hacks and disable them.

      Linus: ""regression testing"? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is perfect." (http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/li...04.1/0149.html)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
        Why are you calling OOM killer and similar hacks? They're not hacks, but normal features.
        Killing random processes instead of the singular process eating all of your RAM is a hack, and a bad one.

        BSD's aren't more stable and they're not used in serious computing unlike Linux.
        DNS servers not serious enough for you?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by LightBit View Post
          Citation: http://developers.sun.com/solaris/ar...ubprocess.html
          Maybe they choose it because most distributions are free. And it is popular.
          Is this citation about Solaris hack that causes something like this:

          http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...ice-rss-memory

          It also seems Solaris kills processes even without OOM:

          http://groups.google.com/group/comp....4d?fwc=1&pli=1

          That's a HACK.

          Linux, IBM AIX, and HP-UX are using memory overcommiting, so it's Solaris staying behind as usual. What's more interesting memory overcommiting is tunable in Linux. Yeah, enterprise, HPC and stock exchanges chose Linux, because Linux distributions are free and more popular. Stop kidding me:

          As a result of mergers and acquisitions, the New York Stock Exchange has migrated over the last few years from HP-UX to IBM AIX to Sun Solaris to Linux.
          http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ture/207800195

          Overcommiting on Linux can't be fully disabled. It is also hard to find all hacks and disable them.

          Linus: ""regression testing"? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is perfect." (http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/li...04.1/0149.html)
          Why do you think overcommiting can't be fully disabled? Any back up? Only trolls call features hacks and you are spreading FUD. As we can see professionals are betting on Linux and this shows it's more reliable. Linus makes kernel not distributions and there are other people who make testing. Ubuntu for example has QA and test farms, RHEL does a lot of testing, too. You're still comparing apples to oranges.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            Killing random processes instead of the singular process eating all of your RAM is a hack, and a bad one.
            It's not a random process, but the process with lowest priority. It's Linux and this is also tunable. Calling good feature a hack that's also present in other professional systems is stupid.

            DNS servers not serious enough for you?
            Most of the DNS servers are running on Linux.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
              The same happens with newer BSD releases - new regressions are introduced, so we can call it a Regression BSD OS, don't you think? Linux hardware support is superior compared to BSD, Solaris, OS X and Windows (when we exclude third party drivers).

              I'd like to know what wifi cards you have, I have 6 wifi cards and none of them work correctly in linux. 1 actually works but the wifi range is about 60% lower then it is in windows. 2 of them used to work, until a regression hit the drivers and they have not been update in a longtime. Also saying Linux has superior hardware support to windows is a joke. Out of the box without internet it might, but overall it does not. excluding third party support make no sense.

              As for the great article showing linux graphics stack beating out windows, I enjoy seeing all the games tested are old OpenGL titles, No on cares to play those games anymore
              and windows 7 has terrible support for openGL. Since DX is superior in every way, john carmack agrees.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                Most of the DNS servers are running on Linux.
                Citation Needed?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  Is this citation about Solaris hack that causes something like this:

                  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...ice-rss-memory
                  Not stability problem. Java sucks anyway.

                  Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  It also seems Solaris kills processes even without OOM:

                  http://groups.google.com/group/comp....4d?fwc=1&pli=1

                  That's a HACK.
                  Nobody knows what that perl script was.

                  Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  Linux, IBM AIX, and HP-UX are using memory overcommiting, so it's Solaris staying behind as usual. What's more interesting memory overcommiting is tunable in Linux. Yeah, enterprise, HPC and stock exchanges chose Linux, because Linux distributions are free and more popular. Stop kidding me:



                  http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ture/207800195
                  Solaris was one of the most advanced unix ever.
                  Well maybe they use it, because of better performance.

                  Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  Why do you think overcommiting can't be fully disabled? Any back up? Only trolls call features hacks and you are spreading FUD.
                  http://developers.sun.com/solaris/ar...ubprocess.html again
                  "it's not a bug, it's a feature"

                  Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  Linus makes kernel not distributions and there are other people who make testing. Ubuntu for example has QA and test farms, RHEL does a lot of testing, too. You're still comparing apples to oranges.
                  Linus makes nothing, but he is religious leader. Distributions follow him.


                  Read "Right vs Wrong": http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/08
                  Last edited by LightBit; 05-03-2012, 02:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by LightBit View Post
                    Not stability problem. Java sucks anyway.
                    Not stability problems in your posts about Linux as well.

                    Nobody knows what that perl script was.
                    How this shows OOM is bad while hack in Solaris is good?

                    Solaris was one of the most advanced unix ever.
                    Well maybe they use it, because of better performance.
                    Solaris was one of the most bloated Unix ever. It failed, because Sun started to base on marketing and "features" rather than user needs.


                    again
                    "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
                    You didn't answer me.


                    Linus makes nothing, but he is religious leader. Distributions follow him.
                    I don't care about your personal liking. I explained you some process.


                    Wrong vs Right ; BSD vs Linux ; killed vs living and growing rapidly.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by soupbowl View Post
                      Citation Needed?
                      http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/repo...&tn=march_2012

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...ystems#Servers

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by soupbowl View Post
                        I'd like to know what wifi cards you have, I have 6 wifi cards and none of them work correctly in linux. 1 actually works but the wifi range is about 60% lower then it is in windows. 2 of them used to work, until a regression hit the drivers and they have not been update in a longtime. Also saying Linux has superior hardware support to windows is a joke. Out of the box without internet it might, but overall it does not. excluding third party support make no sense.
                        I have Atheros based card and it's working great (but I use router for most of the time). Btw. I thought we were talking about wifi situation in BSD compared to Linux? So, BSD and Windows are in the same camp, right? That's somehow imaginable, because BSD is using proprietary friendly license. Linux has superior hardware support to Windows, because Linux drivers belongs to Linux and not to third party members. Windows without third party drivers simply doesn't exist. I explained before I mean Windows without third party drivers.

                        As for the great article showing linux graphics stack beating out windows, I enjoy seeing all the games tested are old OpenGL titles, No on cares to play those games anymore
                        and windows 7 has terrible support for openGL. Since DX is superior in every way, john carmack agrees.
                        You are terribly mistaken. OpenGL is still very important, because it is used on Linux, OS X and Play Station. This is a huge market. After Valve going to Linux its graphic stack will become even better.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                          Not stability problems in your posts about Linux as well.
                          I didn't say BSD or Solaris has better performance. You think Linux is perfect?
                          Some things are not fully compatible, like stability and performance.


                          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                          How this shows OOM is bad while hack in Solaris is good?
                          So tell me which hack was that?


                          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                          Solaris was one of the most bloated Unix ever. It failed, because Sun started to base on marketing and "features" rather than user needs.
                          True. Linux is next.


                          Originally posted by kraftman View Post

                          You didn't answer me.
                          "Mode 2 (which is new in 2.6) is certainly an improvement over modes 0 and 1 available in the older versions of the Linux kernel. However, mode 2 doesn't mean that memory will never be overcommitted. It just uses a different heuristic for guessing how much memory is safe to allow to be allocated."


                          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                          Wrong vs Right ; BSD vs Linux ; killed vs living and growing rapidly.
                          growing rapidly = getting bloated

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This shows, that FreeBSD is more stable than Linux (distributions).
                            Because there are much more Linux servers than FreeBSD, but FreeBSD has good ranks.

                            NetBSD is used by NASA: http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/resear...l#tcp_sat_nasa

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                              I have Atheros based card and it's working great (but I use router for most of the time). Btw. I thought we were talking about wifi situation in BSD compared to Linux? So, BSD and Windows are in the same camp, right? That's somehow imaginable, because BSD is using proprietary friendly license. Linux has superior hardware support to Windows, because Linux drivers belongs to Linux and not to third party members. Windows without third party drivers simply doesn't exist. I explained before I mean Windows without third party drivers.
                              I also have Atheros based card and it works great without installing third party drivers on Windows. Also why would somebody use Windows without third party drivers.
                              Windows at least has more stable driver ABI, so drivers can easly be installed.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by LightBit View Post
                                I didn't say BSD or Solaris has better performance. You think Linux is perfect?
                                Some things are not fully compatible, like stability and performance.
                                You were saying Linux is not as reliable and that's what I was talking about here. The stability and performance is tunable and that's a good thing.

                                So tell me which hack was that?
                                The one that caused an application to be killed. I don't know what they did. Maybe it's the hack from your article?

                                True. Linux is next.
                                Not true. Linux is less bloated than Windows, BSD, Solaris. I'm not talking about kernel size, but about things like ability to run unmodified kernel in embedded systems.

                                "Mode 2 (which is new in 2.6) is certainly an improvement over modes 0 and 1 available in the older versions of the Linux kernel. However, mode 2 doesn't mean that memory will never be overcommitted. It just uses a different heuristic for guessing how much memory is safe to allow to be allocated."
                                And this quote is from Solaris devs? This is from the Linux kernel documentation:

                                http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Docum...mit-accounting


                                Don't overcommit. The total address space commit for the system is not permitted to exceed swap + a configurable percentage (default is 50) of physical RAM.
                                growing rapidly = getting bloated
                                Just a size of a package and number lines of code. You're running just a few percent of entire Linux.

                                Comment

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