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A Status Update On GNU Hurd: Java, Debian, Money

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  • A Status Update On GNU Hurd: Java, Debian, Money

    Phoronix: A Status Update On GNU Hurd: Java, Debian, Money

    Over on the GNU.org Hurd news page is a status update for the GNU Hurd operating system for Q2'2011...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=OTY2Nw

  • #2
    I love reading about the Hurd, and glad to see it being developed. There is nothing wrong with the Linux kernel, but alternatives are always nice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Am I the only one scratching my head? There more pressing issues such as sata support, usb support and hardware support. Then again I guess you can't turn away someone willing to help simply because their project doesn't coincide with ones priorities.

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      • #4
        GNU Hurd... Seriously, isn't this dead, yet?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
          GNU Hurd... Seriously, isn't this dead, yet?
          It was born on my birthday; there's no reason for it to die yet!

          (Edit: well, the year I was born, anyway)

          Comment


          • #6
            GNU Hurd will never die. A Micro kernel architecture OS is a computer science wet dream. Its based on the premiss code performance is totally a hardware issue and every thing should be broken up into as many tiny modules as possible to make debugging easy. As long as Hurd exists people can continue to get PHDs in computer science with out giving into practical demands of end users.

            There is only one really successful micro kernel out there, OS X. I will give props to the developers of it. They have worked hard to get performance acceptable and have actually pulled it off.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Obscene_CNN View Post
              GNU Hurd will never die. A Micro kernel architecture OS is a computer science wet dream. Its based on the premiss code performance is totally a hardware issue and every thing should be broken up into as many tiny modules as possible to make debugging easy. As long as Hurd exists people can continue to get PHDs in computer science with out giving into practical demands of end users.

              There is only one really successful micro kernel out there, OS X. I will give props to the developers of it. They have worked hard to get performance acceptable and have actually pulled it off.
              OS X is a hybrid kernel like Windows NT and the like, not a micro kernel.

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              • #8
                There is only one really successful micro kernel out there, OS X.
                OS X never had, nor never will have, a Microkernel.

                Apple was full of shit for even pretending it was ever anything but a monolythic kernel. Even the kernel it is partially was based on, Mach, gave up being a Microkernel before they they stopped developing on it in the early 90's.

                If you look it up in Wikipedia they will try to say that Apple's XNU kernel is a 'hybrid microkernel'. However it's no such thing. It's like saying my pickup is a hybrid bicycle because bicycle uses pneumatic tires and my truck uses pneumatic tires.

                The only 'mainstream' OS to ever had a Microkernel was NT. Early versions of NT had actual Microkernels, but they abandoned that when they realized it would never have the performance they needed to be competitive. NT kernel currently is certain more of a 'hybrid' then OS X is.

                The most successful commercial OS out there to have a real Microkernel is QNX. And it's only useful for embedded systems.

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                • #9
                  Still, hybrid micro-kernels are pretty sweet.

                  I love how on the (incredibly rare) occasions when my Win7 video driver crashes, my desktop just flickers to black and back and then everything is back to running, no lost apps or anything. Upgrading a driver also requires no restarts. Linux... yeah, Linux. Crashes several times a month if you even think of maybe using your GPU for anything interesting; if even just X goes down all your apps are fu'd; and upgrading anything outside of a text editor usually requires replacing the kernel or half the low-level user-space libraries/daemons and rebooting. Not that you can actually get those updates until ~6 months from now when the distros deign to package up apps' new versions and throw them at you along with that cycle's flavor of desktop UI paradigm. Even though the Linux driver ABI problem and the distro package management problem makes rebooting a near necessity on interesting updates, since interesting updates only happen twice a year nobody notices.

                  Assuming HURD gets more than a single-digit number of dedicated developers, it at least has the chance of being better designed and better behaving (if not better performing) than Linux for hardcore users. However, I doubt it's ever going to be a project taken seriously by the people who matter (hardware vendors and consumers).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                    Still, hybrid micro-kernels are pretty sweet.

                    I love how on the (incredibly rare) occasions when my Win7 video driver crashes, my desktop just flickers to black and back and then everything is back to running, no lost apps or anything. Upgrading a driver also requires no restarts. Linux... yeah, Linux. Crashes several times a month if you even think of maybe using your GPU for anything interesting; if even just X goes down all your apps are fu'd; and upgrading anything outside of a text editor usually requires replacing the kernel or half the low-level user-space libraries/daemons and rebooting. Not that you can actually get those updates until ~6 months from now when the distros deign to package up apps' new versions and throw them at you along with that cycle's flavor of desktop UI paradigm. Even though the Linux driver ABI problem and the distro package management problem makes rebooting a near necessity on interesting updates, since interesting updates only happen twice a year nobody notices.

                    Assuming HURD gets more than a single-digit number of dedicated developers, it at least has the chance of being better designed and better behaving (if not better performing) than Linux for hardcore users. However, I doubt it's ever going to be a project taken seriously by the people who matter (hardware vendors and consumers).
                    What are you doing here, only complaining about Linux and praising Win 7? Don't you think there are then other places where you may pass your time more productively? Seriously.

                    As for HURD, I don't really see its usefulness. It's like Stallman never gave up on the idea he could release an OS entirely under his dream license.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      I love how on the (incredibly rare) occasions when my Win7 video driver crashes, my desktop just flickers to black and back and then everything is back to running, no lost apps or anything.
                      I love how my Linux video drivers don't crash.

                      I used to see regular video driver crashes in Windows 7 using the driver that came with my laptop. I'd rather than just didn't crash than tried to bolt on a bodge to recover better when they do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                        Assuming HURD gets more than a single-digit number of dedicated developers, it at least has the chance of being better designed and better behaving (if not better performing) than Linux for hardcore users. However, I doubt it's ever going to be a project taken seriously by the people who matter (hardware vendors and consumers).
                        Ummm..... The one key flaw to the micro kernel design philosophy is performance. Too much time is wasted passing parameters between functions and different modules. Yes some researchers have shown that they can mitigate this to some extent but they can't eliminate it. In fact you can do some of the same tricks in a monolithic kernel to boost its performance further.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by movieman View Post
                          I love how my Linux video drivers don't crash.
                          Quoted for agreement.

                          I couldn't imagine working in an environment where any of my drivers routinely crash, but then again I'm guessing elanthis is just full of bullshit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Technically, HURD isn't a microkernel, but microkernel services on top of a microkernel.

                            Why am I saying this? Because there is also stalled effort to ditch Mach with its flaws for another L4 kernel, but that kernel development stalled due to the guy working on it being busy, so Mach is being used, but not developped for.

                            So why wasting resources on Mach? They are not; because HURD services use an interface with Mach, that when ported, being able to use all that work on other kernels if desired. So that why they call it services rather than a microkernel. It's also why they don't work on driver specific things like SATA directly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                              Still, hybrid micro-kernels are pretty sweet.

                              I love how on the (incredibly rare) occasions when my Win7 video driver crashes, my desktop just flickers to black and back and then everything is back to running, no lost apps or anything. Upgrading a driver also requires no restarts. Linux... yeah, Linux. Crashes several times a month if you even think of maybe using your GPU for anything interesting; if even just X goes down all your apps are fu'd; and upgrading anything outside of a text editor usually requires replacing the kernel or half the low-level user-space libraries/daemons and rebooting. Not that you can actually get those updates until ~6 months from now when the distros deign to package up apps' new versions and throw them at you along with that cycle's flavor of desktop UI paradigm. Even though the Linux driver ABI problem and the distro package management problem makes rebooting a near necessity on interesting updates, since interesting updates only happen twice a year nobody notices.

                              Assuming HURD gets more than a single-digit number of dedicated developers, it at least has the chance of being better designed and better behaving (if not better performing) than Linux for hardcore users. However, I doubt it's ever going to be a project taken seriously by the people who matter (hardware vendors and consumers).
                              Attacking every single aspect of Linux in one short paragraph is not as effective as you might think.

                              Anyway, doesn't Linux have an early-stages form of driver rebooting?

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