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Haiku OS Advances With New Official Release

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  • #16
    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    I think any OS should now ditch GCC for EkoPath anyway, especially because Linux only needs one tiny patch and EkoPath supports GnuC anyway.
    Lol wut? You obviously haven't tried compiling stuff with Ekopath if you think it's anywhere near a drop-in replacement for GCC. Also, having now run Ekopath on a number of benchmark tests I can tell you that the cherry-picked test results from the Phoronix benchmarks are not something you can expect in general. In some tests it wins out, in some tests it loses to GCC, in many they are very close, in many ekopath sadly fails to compile and often suffers internal crashes.

    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Anything not x86 or Itanium? LLVM for the long run. Gnu gives two fingers to standards. I mean... GNU C? WTF... Non-complience and bugs everywhere...
    What exactly are you referring to? Compiler extensions? And bugs everywhere? Compared to what?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
      For Haiku 1.0 the developers target close to 100% BeOS compatibility. As you may have forgotten, with GCC 3.0 the C++ ABI was changed which means that all C++ applications had to be recompiled in order to work again. For that reason Haiku is – so far at least – stuck with GCC 2 and 32 Bit mode.
      Yes, I'm not sure I agree with their choice in this since while it probably made sense at the time, when Haiku 1.0 finally ships I doubt there will be much interest in Beos legacy apps. And since the Beos/GCC2 compability will be deprecated post 1.0 anyway, why not make the break right now?

      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
      However, Haiku is built to be compilable with GCC 4. It's just not the supported way to do. As for compilation as 64 bit OS: Could be that that's possible, too, but – again – not officially supported. I don't know about this, though.
      Actually Haiku is continously being built with GCC 4 and served up as nightlies. Also GCC 4 is supplied with the Haiku Alpha's although it defaults to gcc 2.95. You can change this with the command 'setgcc gcc4'. Again I think it would be wise to switch fully to GCC4> now rather than wait for final r1, but that's just my personal opinion. As for 64bit, there was work done on that during last GSOC but I don't think the guy got very far, the project didn't get anywhere near finishing. My guess is that someone like Ingo (kernel dev extraordinaire) will have to do it, a good candidate for a future development contract imo.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
        Yes, I'm not sure I agree with their choice in this since while it probably made sense at the time, when Haiku 1.0 finally ships I doubt there will be much interest in Beos legacy apps. And since the Beos/GCC2 compability will be deprecated post 1.0 anyway, why not make the break right now?
        They defined a sane roadmap and they stick to it without any “mission creep”. I think it's very admirable. Many projects die or almost die because of lack of a clear vision.
        For quite some time user-space components were developed inside BeOS 5. So GCC2 was the only possible choice anyway.

        In the long term I'd guess Clang will be the preferred choice simply because the developers like BSD-like licenses more.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
          Lol wut? You obviously haven't tried compiling stuff with Ekopath if you think it's anywhere near a drop-in replacement for GCC. Also, having now run Ekopath on a number of benchmark tests I can tell you that the cherry-picked test results from the Phoronix benchmarks are not something you can expect in general. In some tests it wins out, in some tests it loses to GCC, in many they are very close, in many ekopath sadly fails to compile and often suffers internal crashes.
          So I'm not the only one with this crashy experience If I paid $1795 or more for a compiler license and it crashed internally as often as EkoPath does, I would want a refund. No wonder they open sourced it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            In the long term I'd guess Clang will be the preferred choice simply because the developers like BSD-like licenses more.
            Actually, from what I've gathered during the mailing-lists discussions they are (atleast the key devs) not very licence opinionated but rather pragmatic. For instance they stick with bash (GPL) rather than any bsd licenced equivalent due to the compability it offers. There are some devs like pulkomandy who seem to be very licence-oriented but I'd say he is hardly the norm.

            Also it should be noted that the reason Haiku (or OpenBeos as it was called then) chose MIT licence for the project was not ideological but practical. Back then they wanted a permissive licence because they were hoping for a commercial (and thus potentially closed source) pick-up of the project.

            There's certainly the possibility that clang/llvm will replace GCC as the 'shipped-with' compiler for Haiku, but if so I'm certain that will be a choice made on technical grounds, not ideological.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
              So I'm not the only one with this crashy experience If I paid $1795 or more for a compiler license and it crashed internally as often as EkoPath does, I would want a refund. No wonder they open sourced it.
              Well, it certainly hasn't impressed me yet, however I am using the nightlies and I'm assuming (hoping) that the internal crashes are atleast due to them being in-development snapshots. The lack of compability is a bit more worrying though.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                So you might say that GCC2 support is a good thing as it means the code is portable. Pfft netbsd still buits on GCC2 after all and its gets respect seriously don't diss an OS cause it supports MORE compilers.
                I don't think NetBSD is shipping compiled with GCC 2, dude. And it only supports GCC2, it doesn't recommend it or use it by default.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                  its nice to see a hobby os coming together after 10 years in development

                  i would be glad to give it a try in a VM if my computer could be used as something more than a web browser
                  Running it in a VM is not fun. There is no sound, no mouse integration with the host, no shared clipboard or shared folders, no graphics driver....

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                    Running it in a VM is not fun. There is no sound, no mouse integration with the host, no shared clipboard or shared folders, no graphics driver....
                    There's certainly sound when I'm running through VirtualBox, as for the other things (shared folders/clipboard, mouse integration) it's in the works as part of a GSOC project this summer.

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                    • #25
                      I don't get any sound in VMWare. Is there some tweak I need to perform?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                        According to a poll asking for what was a requirement for ending R1, was Gallium3D and WPA (and some other things).

                        I think any OS should now ditch GCC for EkoPath anyway, especially because Linux only needs one tiny patch and EkoPath supports GnuC anyway.

                        Anything not x86 or Itanium? LLVM for the long run. Gnu gives two fingers to standards. I mean... GNU C? WTF... Non-complience and bugs everywhere...
                        really insulting posting there.

                        gcc adheres to standards. Nobody gives 'two fingers to standards'. That is a lie. You should be ashamed.

                        gcc supports some constructs which are not part of 'the standards' - the gnu extensions. Nobody forces you to use them. You can happily write&compile your project without any non-standard line.

                        It is the choice of the people to use those extensions. And some people chose to use them. A lot of people actually. Might give you some food for thought.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                          I don't get any sound in VMWare. Is there some tweak I need to perform?
                          installoptionalpackage -a opensound

                          OpenSound 4.x has been ported to Haiku and offers drivers which work under vmware.

                          PS. you will have to expand the vm disk image, since there is not enough free space to install opensound. On real hardware, though, it works great.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by energyman View Post
                            really insulting posting there.

                            gcc adheres to standards. Nobody gives 'two fingers to standards'. That is a lie. You should be ashamed.

                            gcc supports some constructs which are not part of 'the standards' - the gnu extensions. Nobody forces you to use them. You can happily write&compile your project without any non-standard line.

                            It is the choice of the people to use those extensions. And some people chose to use them. A lot of people actually. Might give you some food for thought.
                            Don't mind V!NCENT, he's a hater. The guy has same irrational hate towards GNU, the FSF and RMS. That's why he's rooting for any compiler but GCC. And yes he's clueless on the subject.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                              I don't get any sound in VMWare. Is there some tweak I need to perform?
                              Ahh, I was assuming you used VirtualBox, in which Haiku Alpha runs perfectly with the host ALSA audio driver. Also the VM integrations being worked on for GSOC that I mentioned are for VirtualBox aswell. I haven't used VMWare in ages so I can't help you there.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by energyman View Post
                                really insulting posting there.

                                gcc adheres to standards. Nobody gives 'two fingers to standards'. That is a lie. You should be ashamed.
                                C'mon... GNU adheres as much to C as Internet Explorer adheres to W3C standards. The amount of times I have seen releases passed while having 'complience regressions' is insane.

                                From http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Standards.html
                                For each language compiled by GCC for which there is a standard, GCC attempts to follow one or more versions of that standard, possibly with some exceptions, and possibly with some extensions.
                                That's not possibly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C99
                                Don't confuse facts for insults. Many compilers have that problem.

                                gcc supports some constructs which are not part of 'the standards' - the gnu extensions. Nobody forces you to use them. You can happily write&compile your project without any non-standard line.
                                Like with Microsoft Windows? Nobody requires you to use DirectX for web apps, or Silverlight, but you can use them anyway? You know they call that shit? lock-in-product.

                                It is the choice of the people to use those extensions. And some people chose to use them. A lot of people actually. Might give you some food for thought.
                                A lot of people choose to develop for Windows. Food for thought too? I think not.

                                @AC: Stop being so full of shit. There is passion for better stuff (open source), concepts (like an interface and not bloody Windows 8, but fanboys were happy to keep op shitstorming about how Apple rules the world) and there are facts (things not working or breaking). It is well know that I am a FLOSS fanboy and there are countless ATi FLOSS versus nVidia closed source discussions/flamewars to sift through to prove I'm not a fan of proprietary AT ALL.

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