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Experimenting With No "Hover Ads" On Phoronix

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  • #46
    Well it may block ads that would be ok. But if an ad doesn't want to be annoying (e.g. play videos or sound) it should not use flash. :-)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Michael View Post
      It's not that it's not appealing, it's just that alone or anything close to that isn't really viable if the original poster was thinking it could replace ads.
      Ah, I misunderstood that that's what the purpose of it was. Sorry, my bad!

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      • #48
        Full anti-tracking setups almost impossible to use whitelisting with

        Originally posted by Artemis3 View Post
        The author of Adblock Plus accepts money to unblock some sites by default, which is why people should use Adblock Edge instead.

        To surf the web a complete prevention suite is required, you need to be ready to block not just ads, but trackers, scripts, plugins, cookies, referrer, and even obfuscate your browser to reduce fingerprinting techniques. The most offensive anti-adblocking sites might require some stylish or greasemonkey scripts.

        The web became way too hostile to naively use it with a plain vanilla browser, and i can't imagine doing it like that in a mobile.

        As for, business models, yadda, yadda; well, if it fails it fails, good riddance and others will come. In fact the amount of people using ad blockers is too small to affect the revenue of a site and its usually the whole idea that might be flawed to begin with.

        The solution is very simple but people like Michael are lazy. They have to strike the deals directly, and not use a third parties to serve ads. You serve the ad (from your server and your bandwidth), and it will be seen. Get some sponsors, such as Valve and the german beers, and because you cut the deals, these should bring far more money per view.

        Also, a single static ad per page at most. Of course i don't expect any change any time soon, and the site still goes on so its not in any danger the way it is.

        I am surprised you had something so horrible in the first place, i could have never guessed you had those links pop up ads in place. You just reinforced the need to defend ourselves against the hostile web. Are you even not blocking ads? You can never honestly answer, or you live in multi megabit land where contacting 30 servers before any page gets displayed, and executing an obscene amount of scripts, plus loading plugins such as flash and java, doesn't bother you and somehow it all loads under 1sec.

        Well good luck convincing people to opt in to watch those ads.
        This situation, in turn, makes whitelisting difficult as well as actually dangerous when 3ed party ad networks are combined with computers handline sensitive information. If I want to look at a site with all 3ed party content enabled, it's actually easiest to use one of my old clunkers with a Mint live USB stick. Pull out the small form factor Pentium 4 Prescott/Nvidia 520 with Mint, hook up the cables, plug in the Mint stick and go. If it gets fingerprinted it doesn't match any of my operational machines. Don't browse any other websites, read your Phoronix content, reboot for any other sites you want to view this way, one boot per site.

        The use of another machine is to defend against fingerprinting by clock skew and other hardware uniquenesses. Also be sure that you do any typing in text editor and cut and paste to browser while using an undefended machine, as Scout Analytics is attempting to build a database of unique users by typing cadence. Browser fingerprinting firms like BlueCava have publicly announced their goal of building a database of people's computers that would be used like credit scores. I go out of my way to keep my working machines that handle information that must be kept from Homeland Security out of those databases.

        In the sites I an directly involved with administering, we are still seeking a way to enable users to post stories with 3ed party media content such as Youtube videos without exposing users to being tracked simply by loading the page. They are expected to know that clicking on a link to content from Google means being tracked unless they have very strong defenses. Against Google I trust only Torbrowser. You won't get hacked from Google (that I know of), but you will get tracked by Google otherwise. 3ed party content in general is the vector of attack, it has nothing to do with whether the content is an ad for BMW or a Youtube video of global warming protesters dressed as elves outside a BMW dealership.

        Some of this is out of the hands of a site like Phoronix, the ad networks themselves are going to have to become as robust against being hacked by a 4th party attacker as Youtube's videos are. Unlike Youtube, the ad networks themselves will then have to find a way to make their ads work without storing persistant databases of web surfers. Not just at Phoronix but at almost any website, "relevant" ads could be determined by content of the page within the website, perhaps by keyword provided by the site hiring the ad agency. This would work the way magazine ads can be placed by the pages most relevant to the ad itself. Those "mouseover hover ads" used on so many blogs and just dropped here could simply require the link word be a word and context that would be relevant to a hyperlink to something similar to what is being advertised.

        Also needed is some kind of certification system where ad networks are audited to ensure that they are not engaging in browser fingerprinting, setting supercookies, flash cookies, or other ways to cooercively track users who do not allow 3ed party cookies to be set. A site using only ad networks with this certification and a security certification could then confidently tell users they can whitelist the site at no risk to themselves if their blocking setup supports whitelisting or can be hacked to do so.

        One site cannot fix all this, when it becomes industry-wide due to prevailing trends the big ad networks will adapt because they have to. If the number of people actually BUYING the advertised content stays similar, than the same financial value is delivered to the advertisers, and market forces should push the same money out to sites using them. I for one am glad to see that Michael is willing to discuss this, keeps active forums for this, and responds to user concerns. There are a hell of a lot of monetized sites out there that automatically ban any users who discuss their ad practices in any way, in stark contrast to Phoronix. Takes guts to discuss this in the open, kudos to Michael for being willing to step up to the plate and talk about this!

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        • #49
          I turned off adblock and I had to enable some sites in noscript, whitelist the site in ghostery... We'll see how this pans out.

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          • #50
            Thanks to the people mentioning Ghostery, that looks very interesting!
            As for adblocking... one my main issue is really loading time... When I go to a website that has various ads and they take forever to load while the website does not... it's super annoying.
            I wonder why the websites cannot pre-cache a certain amount of ads before and serve them from their own servers... that'd be a lot better for visitors.

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            • #51
              I turned off adblock for a couple days. Turned it back on today after opening a Phoronix page in a background tab and found it making tons of noise from some pop-over ad.

              I turn it off for sites I like, but that's with the condition that the ads be bearable. Noisy ads are the worst, on top of that they're terrible on mobile browsers as they're extremely hard to close without a mouse.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Vash63 View Post
                I turned off adblock for a couple days. Turned it back on today after opening a Phoronix page in a background tab and found it making tons of noise from some pop-over ad.

                I turn it off for sites I like, but that's with the condition that the ads be bearable. Noisy ads are the worst, on top of that they're terrible on mobile browsers as they're extremely hard to close without a mouse.
                Noisy ads I don't tolerate either... As I've mentioned to others, when such ads do appear, please let me know their name (or screenshot) and ad URL, so I can get them blocked from the network. I don't get to see every ad that appears so when there is an offender chances are I don't know unless people report them.
                Michael Larabel
                http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                • #53
                  Two things:

                  A. - Adblock to stop this kind of madness
                  B. - Bitcoins donation so Michael can still buy his beers without going broke.

                  I mean, how can people find the web browseable without such plugins? I rediscovered what an AWEFUL mess of ads the web has become when I started browsing on my smartphone... until Adblock got released for it too. YOU WILL NEVER SEE ME TURNING AN AD-BLOCKER OFF, EVER. I prefere donating (directly to authors I like) rather than even considering turning adblock off and thus validating the middle-men responsible for this aweful state of things. I want my old web back.

                  Also, though ad companies are giving a bit to the authors of such websites, their ads cost a lot of bandwidth and thus time and/or money (depending on the data plan). Thus you're really better of donating.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by DrYak View Post
                    B. - Bitcoins donation so Michael can still buy his beers without going broke.
                    I rarely even drink beer these days... And obviously beer is far from being my only expense...
                    Michael Larabel
                    http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                    • #55
                      Many ad servers rely on tracking thus cannot be cached

                      Originally posted by geearf View Post
                      Thanks to the people mentioning Ghostery, that looks very interesting!
                      As for adblocking... one my main issue is really loading time... When I go to a website that has various ads and they take forever to load while the website does not... it's super annoying.
                      I wonder why the websites cannot pre-cache a certain amount of ads before and serve them from their own servers... that'd be a lot better for visitors.
                      A pre-cache system serves ads just fine, but it does not track users. Therefore, those ad networks that make their money on tracking people don't want to go there. I suspect the spread of adblockers will eventually force the big adservers to switch to a non-tracked, pre-cached model, as ads served directly from the main server would be almost immune to blocking. Such ads exist now, but Michael reports that they are not paying well.

                      Ads-or any other content-that takes too long to load could be loaded sequentially instead of all at once. Worst case I ever saw was a blog with many embedded videos, all with sound, all set to auto-start. Each video was a good one, but to watch one required finding and shutting off all the others, and the bandwidth made that almost impossible.

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                      • #56
                        I'd prefer it if everybody donated, then we'd only
                        have to donate a small amount for Michael to
                        be able to make a living from the site. Even
                        the equivalent of one Starbucks coffee every
                        two months from every reader would probably
                        make a difference.

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                        • #57
                          That assumes all readers have income

                          Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
                          I'd prefer it if everybody donated, then we'd only
                          have to donate a small amount for Michael to
                          be able to make a living from the site. Even
                          the equivalent of one Starbucks coffee every
                          two months from every reader would probably
                          make a difference.
                          Some of us are not employed and literally cannot afford to buy anything at Starbucks. There is a huge difference between gamers who work at Google and "Occupy" protesters in the park. None of my work is monetized, and I am not about to sell ads on the anticapitalist videos I publish. It would be nice if people donated to me to cover things like storage (HDD's) and rain-damaged cameras, but they don't (and often could not if they wanted to) so I have to make to with what I can get. I don't mean to be down on you but on a site with as many readers as Phoronix you have to assume that anyone from a squatter with a dumpstered desktop he is hotrodding with Ebay parts to a custom system builder selling to millionaires, to that millionaire's rich gamer son could be among the readers.
                          Last edited by Luke; 05-28-2014, 12:52 PM.

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                          • #58
                            I disabled Adblock, but all of your ads are still blocked by DoNotTrackMe (which I'm not going to remove).

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                            • #59
                              I use Ghostery plugin, which reveals the scary state of many websites.

                              I use it in non-blocking mode at work because I work in publishing (for one more week) and need all the cookies and tracking to actually work.

                              I use Ghostery to block tracking cookies at home and that does break adverts, I am "happy" for non-too-intrusive adverts but not tracking; I actually find that adverts targeted to the *website* I am visiting can be useful and relevant... such as a review about SSDs and the like.

                              I would happily click through Amazon referrer links on Phoronix too. Just be sure to have links for US, UK, and various EU versions of the Amazon.~~~ website.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Luke View Post
                                Some of us are not employed and literally cannot afford to buy anything at Starbucks. There is a huge difference between gamers who work at Google and "Occupy" protesters in the park. None of my work is monetized, and I am not about to sell ads on the anticapitalist videos I publish. It would be nice if people donated to me to cover things like storage (HDD's) and rain-damaged cameras, but they don't (and often could not if they wanted to) so I have to make to with what I can get. I don't mean to be down on you but on a site with as many readers as Phoronix you have to assume that anyone from a squatter with a dumpstered desktop he is hotrodding with Ebay parts to a custom system builder selling to millionaires, to that millionaire's rich gamer son could be among the readers.
                                I hope I didn't offend you. My point is that if the majority of people who were in a position to donate, did, rather than assume everyone else will, things would be better.

                                I am not boasting, but I do give modestly to charities, very selectively, as I try hard to choose ones which are efficient and perform a useful service. It can be quite hard to find those who do, rather than seem to be more of an employer of advertising executives! I found this which seems to help: http://www.givewell.org/

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