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Would Phoronix do Gentoo Linux versus Ubuntu Linux benchmarks?

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  • #16
    revdep-rebuild recompiles library users. It is not always accurate, but cases where it fails are usually caught and documented long before the package becomes stable. duby229's characterization of revdep-rebuild is incorrect.

    The library preservation feature which ferreira talked about is new to portage 2.2. It is not the same as slotting.

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    • #17
      Upgrading Gentoo works fine for me. If it is possible that you are the first one with a configuration that upgrades will break, but like with all distributions, that is when you file a bug report.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by chithanh View Post
        revdep-rebuild recompiles library users. It is not always accurate, but cases where it fails are usually caught and documented long before the package becomes stable. duby229's characterization of revdep-rebuild is incorrect.

        The library preservation feature which ferreira talked about is new to portage 2.2. It is not the same as slotting.
        If you dont believe me then test it. I'm sure it is supposed to work the way you think it does, but it doesnt.

        As far as preserved libs go, it is known to be broken in 2.2. Please dont recommend that people use it right now unless you tell them it is for bug testing only. I looked at the code, but I cant figure out the structure. I'm just not sure what they are trying to do with it.

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        • #19
          I used to think that there wouldn't be much use to phoronix running gentoo tests, but actually it might be useful for one reason: it's not ubuntu. Running everything off ubuntu results in a heavy reliance upon the way that ubuntu does things - which may cause various conclusions to be ultimately flawed.
          Gentoo, Fedora, openSUSE, something else to compare the tests against would provide much more useful information than only running tests against ubuntu.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
            If you dont believe me then test it. I'm sure it is supposed to work the way you think it does, but it doesnt.

            As far as preserved libs go, it is known to be broken in 2.2. Please dont recommend that people use it right now unless you tell them it is for bug testing only. I looked at the code, but I cant figure out the structure. I'm just not sure what they are trying to do with it.
            Personally I stopped using portage few years ago and never had problems with my systems There are better package managers for gentoo then old portage.
            Rob
            email: dagger@gentoo.org

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sabriah View Post
              Which optimizations should be done for Ubuntu, as you, after all, can compile your own package for Ubuntu (and Debian) too, using about the same optimizations as for Gentoo.
              You don't understand, the point is to make Gentoo win the benchmark, not vice versa! I mean, otherwise the benchmarks will just show how pointless it is to turn to Gentoo purely for performance reasons.

              I wonder why they didn't test 64bit though. Who in his right mind would use Gentoo on a 32bit (i.e. Atom) CPU anyway?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by dagger View Post
                Personally I stopped using portage few years ago and never had problems with my systems There are better package managers for gentoo then old portage.
                What package manager are you using right now? I've thought about giving paludis a try, but am still uncertain. Any advise or links how to get started?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                  You don't understand, the point is to make Gentoo win the benchmark, not vice versa! I mean, otherwise the benchmarks will just show how pointless it is to turn to Gentoo purely for performance reasons.

                  I wonder why they didn't test 64bit though. Who in his right mind would use Gentoo on a 32bit (i.e. Atom) CPU anyway?
                  In a fair comparison (all important software versions being the same), Gentoo likely would win in benchmarks. It does not derive its name from the fastest species of penguin in the world for nothing. In principle, Gentoo could represent an upper limit for performance, which is an upper limit that other distributions's package maintainers might possibly be able to make their distributions closer to attaining.

                  On the other hand, it is possible that Gentoo would not outperform other distributions in some areas, which is where benchmarks would really become interesting, because it would likely highlight a performance regression in the GNU Compiler that negatively affects all Linux distributions.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
                    In principle, Gentoo could represent an upper limit for performance, which is an upper limit that other distributions's package maintainers might possibly be able to make their distributions closer to attaining.
                    Oh, I see. You're shooting for a quote on funroll-loops. Good luck and godspeed.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
                      Oh, I see. You're shooting for a quote on funroll-loops. Good luck and godspeed.
                      Gentoo is usually compiled with -march=native, which should make it equal to or faster than other distributions in itself. Citing funroll-loops.info in response to that notion makes no sense to me.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
                        Gentoo is usually compiled with -march=native, which should make it equal to or faster than other distributions in itself. Citing funroll-loops.info in response to that notion makes no sense to me.
                        It makes sense because you're using a relatively minor factor in performance to declare Gentoo the absolute upper limit of performance. Real-world performance tuning involves a lot more than "pick the best CFLAGS".

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                        • #27
                          I agree. I think performance tuning has alot more to do with what is in RAM than anything else. Just my opinion, but lets face it memory is the bottleneck on most systems. You can move 100megs alot faster then you can move a gig for example.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
                            Gentoo is usually compiled with -march=native, which should make it equal to or faster than other distributions in itself. Citing funroll-loops.info in response to that notion makes no sense to me.
                            Did you even read the linked article? There were tests where using the "better" -march resulted in a 50% performance degradation.

                            The funroll-loops quotation certainly fits, as you seem to be going into Gentoo with the very attitude they ridicule (Gentoo = CFLAGS = moar speed!)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              Did you even read the linked article? There were tests where using the "better" -march resulted in a 50% performance degradation.

                              The funroll-loops quotation certainly fits, as you seem to be going into Gentoo with the very attitude they ridicule (Gentoo = CFLAGS = moar speed!)
                              I am actually a regular on the forums and the general consensus is to use CFLAGS="-O2 -march=native -pipe" on amd64 platforms and possibly appending "-fomit-frame-pointer" on x86 platforms.

                              Where did you obtain your information regarding what Gentoo users ridicule?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Did you even read the linked article? There were tests where using the "better" -march resulted in a 50% performance degradation.

                                The funroll-loops quotation certainly fits, as you seem to be going into Gentoo with the very attitude they ridicule (Gentoo = CFLAGS = moar speed!)
                                I forgot to mention, I saw a link to that webpage on the gentoo forums two months ago and read it in detail. While I found it to be hilarious, it is only a parody of things and not a perfect reflection of reality. If I recall correctly, the jokes on that webpage revolve around "-O4 -fultimate-optimization -fopt-a -fopt-b -fopt-c..." and many other pointless, redundant or non-existant optimizations such as those.

                                Anyway, your lack of knowledge on this topic suggests that you do not use Gentoo Linux. I would like to take this opportunity to suggest that you try switching to it and learn how Gentoo does things first hand. Setting your system CFLAGS is less than 0.1% of the stuff you will do to get a working system and while it is important that your system CFLAGS are configured correctly, Gentoo attempts not to maximize performance of your system, but to maximize the customizability of your system. Experiencing higher performance is often a side effect of that, where the choice of CFLAGS being one of the customization options you have when using Gentoo.

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