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  • #61
    Originally posted by mattmatteh View Post
    i dont think closed source drivers should be considered at all.
    Some of us RELY on closed source drivers for advanced 3-D support that would simply not exist otherwise.

    I follow the directions carefully and have had nothing but great success with the nVidia drivers.

    Philosophical considerations about the merits of open source do not belong in a buyer's guide.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
      Philosophical considerations about the merits of open source do not belong in a buyer's guide.
      True. A note that it replaces some X.org components and feedback should be directed to nVidia developers instead of X.org developers in most cases might make sense though.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
        True. A note that it replaces some X.org components and feedback should be directed to nVidia developers instead of X.org developers in most cases might make sense though.
        This goes for open-source drivers as well. I am sure that the Fedora developers, and probably even the kernel developers, are really not interested in hearing about bugs in the cyclades RS-232 port driver, even though it is shipped by the distribution and part of the kernel. If you take this to is logical conclusion then each machine will have a huge list of URLs for the developers of the drivers for each of its hardware components.

        The closed-source drivers are not installed by default, some user intervention is necessary. Presumably this alone is "notification" that you shouldn't expect help from the distribution's developers with your problem.

        My point is that this is not really an issue to be considered in a buyer's guide. The buyers guides for automobiles do not list off where you should go to get your car fixed.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
          Some of us RELY on closed source drivers for advanced 3-D support that would simply not exist otherwise.
          thats something to be avoided
          Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
          I follow the directions carefully and have had nothing but great success with the nVidia drivers.
          dont get me wrong, nvidia works for me here too, but nvidia does not support old cards so after some years of use you are screwed. my old ati cards work great and with new kernels too.
          Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
          Philosophical considerations about the merits of open source do not belong in a buyer's guide.
          i am only suggesting that closed source is left out since it has a much shorter life that open source. when i buy hardware i expect a long life out of it.

          matt

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          • #65
            Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
            My point is that this is not really an issue to be considered in a buyer's guide. The buyers guides for automobiles do not list off where you should go to get your car fixed.
            thats an interesting point. i dont think many would be interested in a car from GM because there could be a hard time getting parts for it later on. same with proprietary drivers, support will just dissapear someday.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by mattmatteh View Post
              thats something to be avoideddont get me wrong, nvidia works for me here too, but nvidia does not support old cards so after some years of use you are screwed.
              matt
              Here is the card in my file server:

              05:08.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 4000] (rev c1)

              Works just great with the nouveau driver

              If I wanted to do 3-D on that machine I would buy a newer card.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by mattmatteh View Post
                thats an interesting point. i dont think many would be interested in a car from GM because there could be a hard time getting parts for it later on. same with proprietary drivers, support will just dissapear someday.
                right, because not being able to use anything older then a geforce 4 with nvidia's propriatary drivers, current kernel, and current xorg is really an abomination.

                edit: upon further inspection, it seems geforce 3 is also supported by that driver version
                Last edited by AdrenalineJunky; 08-21-2009, 05:13 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                  As long as the gpu company (which seems to be our example) supports the hardware like they should if they were worth buying from, then closed source drivers would only be a religious debate. Intel doesnt fudge the drivers so the benchmarks look good on mac, intel just doesnt give a shit. Open source implementations of ATI was a community effort yet people are willing to buy the cards for the open drivers even though ATI really doesnt care. Its not hard for them to document some stuff and make other people do it. Look at what S3 wants done, they basically want us to make the driver for them.

                  Theres alot to think about if setting up a store. The idea of selling ati cards for open drivers is a moral disaster. Your supporting a company who is working on the backs of its users. Kind of defeats the purpose of it being open source. Im just saying its food for thought.
                  moral desaster? Nvidia is an moral desaster! intel is just an joge!

                  RMS himself says AMD supports opensource/freesoftware to 100%!

                  becourse long time in the past intel only makes opensource software there do not release any specs.

                  to openup the specs are much more support that ever company ever ever do!

                  R900 generation of AMD/ATI hartware pushes all the DRM/DHCP crap out of the main chip so AMD will OpenUp then hole hartware in the future for Free and opensource hartware!

                  future will bring some cool Stuff.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mattmatteh View Post
                    same with proprietary drivers, support will just dissapear someday.
                    Same with open source drivers:

                    My Gravis Ultrasound card is not supported by Fedora any more.

                    My old Pentium machines are not supported any more. I had a nice old SMP '486 motherboard, solid as a rock, but now totally useless.

                    How about those old non-IDE CD-ROM drives? Not supported any more.

                    Over the years I have taken many many old computer parts to the recycler because they are not supported by Linux any more.

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                    • #70
                      I defy anyone to put together an "open source" computer.

                      When you turn on TCP checksum support in your Ethernet card, you are relying on the closed source microcode in your Ethernet controller to do part of your networking for you. Even Intel and AMD do not release the source to the microcode that controls their products.

                      Functionality in your computer is a combination of the microcode in your peripherals being told what to do by the OS driver. The line between the hardware and the software is pretty arbitrary. Imagine a card that does everything in microcode. The "open source" driver merely stuffs commands into the registers of the card and says "do it". Since the card has DMA access to your computer it can do just as many evil things as a closed source driver.

                      Look at the situation with USB wireless devices. Some of them have their firmware built in, and they are "good". Others require the firmware to be downloaded, and they are "bad". I really don't understand the distinction.

                      There are open source drivers that were written by employees of the companies that made the hardware, and they had access to documents that are not public. These are in the same boat as closed-source drivers because we are at the mercy of the manufacturer to update the drivers.

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