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  • Microsoft Open-Sources Its OOXML SDK

    Phoronix: Microsoft Open-Sources Its OOXML SDK

    While Microsoft's Open XML (OOXML) SDK has long been publicly available, today they have finally decided to open-source this software development kit...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTcyOTg

  • #2
    That pig is mutating wings

    Hasn't this basically been the holy grail of open document format efforts for the past 15 years? Or what is the catch?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by afeder View Post
      Hasn't this basically been the holy grail of open document format efforts for the past 15 years? Or what is the catch?
      Well no.... the holy grail of the ODF efforts is for ODF to be used everywhere, by everybody, for everyone else though this is a Really Good Thing (tm) as it means a standardized reference implementation of OOXML, the only problem is nobody has an office suite written in C#

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      • #4
        This is really funny: High-performance and C#

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
          Well no.... the holy grail of the ODF efforts is for ODF to be used everywhere, by everybody, for everyone else though this is a Really Good Thing (tm) as it means a standardized reference implementation of OOXML, the only problem is nobody has an office suite written in C#
          I wasn't referring to capital ODF, but the more general movement advocating open standards for document formats. I remember Microsoft's unwillingness to properly document and specificy OOXML as being a major sticking point in the document format wars in the EU, for example. I hope all this is part of a trend since Ballmer was kicked out. Satya Nadella increasingly appears to have a quite different focus from the Borg-like Microsoft of olden times.

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          • #6
            So only useful as a validator and perhaps reference... Sigh. I'm still hopeful that perhaps one day LibreOffice Impress will be able to open pptx files with the font not being tiny.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by afeder View Post
              I wasn't referring to capital ODF, but the more general movement advocating open standards for document formats. I remember Microsoft's unwillingness to properly document and specificy OOXML as being a major sticking point in the document format wars in the EU, for example. I hope all this is part of a trend since Ballmer was kicked out. Satya Nadella increasingly appears to have a quite different focus from the Borg-like Microsoft of olden times.
              You really think that Satya once in office has done everything by his own accord? Lol, he can't raise a finger without the permission of the board and the nod of Gates. Balmer's departure was a sign that Microsoft's policies are changing but in no way has it influenced who is running the show.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by afeder View Post
                I wasn't referring to capital ODF, but the more general movement advocating open standards for document formats. I remember Microsoft's unwillingness to properly document and specificy OOXML as being a major sticking point in the document format wars in the EU, for example. I hope all this is part of a trend since Ballmer was kicked out. Satya Nadella increasingly appears to have a quite different focus from the Borg-like Microsoft of olden times.
                OOXML itself is a hell, if ODF takes a little over a 1000 pages of documentation, OOXML is 5-10 thousand pages long. No one in his right mind would bother to implement such a huge pile of prescriptions.
                And last I heard OOXML was designed in such a way to allow to create incompatible documents, iirc adding a possibility to embed ActiveX or some other random stuff that would only work on selective OSes, like ms windows. ODF on the other side, only allows (Java) applets, though nowadays nobody bothers using/creating those.
                Last edited by tarceri; 06-25-2014, 08:04 PM. Reason: fixed typo

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BSDude View Post
                  You really think that Satya once in office has done everything by his own accord? Lol, he can't raise a finger without the permission of the board and the nod of Gates. Balmer's departure was a sign that Microsoft's policies are changing but in no way has it influenced who is running the show.
                  Seems like the kind of automated babble would let out if they don't really know what they are talking about. The fact of the matter is that Ballmer performed poorly in new markets like mobile and web, and everyone at Microsoft wanted to see a new direction.
                  Originally posted by mark45 View Post
                  OOXML itself is a hell, if ODF takes a little over a 1000 pages of documentation, OOXML is 5-10 thousand pages long. No one in his mind would bother to implement such a huge pile of prescriptions.
                  If that is the case, I guess Google are not in their right mind given that they have just announced native OOXML support in Google Docs. Regardless of how poor the format is, it is too widespread for real businesses like Google to ignore.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by afeder View Post
                    If that is the case, I guess Google are not in their right mind given that they have just announced native OOXML support in Google Docs. Regardless of how poor the format is, it is too widespread for real businesses like Google to ignore.
                    Native =/= complete

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by afeder View Post
                      If that is the case, I guess Google are not in their right mind given that they have just announced native OOXML support in Google Docs. Regardless of how poor the format is, it is too widespread for real businesses like Google to ignore.
                      I mean except big corporations of course since for example Microsoft a priori supports OOXML.
                      As to Google I'm pretty sure it only supports a subset of OOXML since even ODF isn't supported by any toolkit 100%, last I read LibreOffice was adding minor missing ODF functionality, and as I read a while ago even Microsoft wasn't fully supporting OOXML since it's too much work.

                      In Google's case one has to notice that there's many levels of support for something:
                      1) partial support, even that partial part might be crappy
                      2) full support, but crappy or not optimized
                      3) full support, good and optimized

                      Does Google state which type of support for OOXML they have?

                      And yes, "native" basically doesn't mean anything. Remember how Microsoft praised IE9 for "native" hw acceleration?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by afeder View Post
                        (OOXML itself is a hell, if ODF takes a little over a 1000 pages of documentation, OOXML is 5-10 thousand pages long. No one in his mind would bother to implement such a huge pile of prescriptions.)

                        ..If that is the case..
                        Yes it's the case, I actually implemented the core part of .ods (ODF spreadsheets) in Qt5 as a library for Qt users to be able to read/write .ods files, and the documentation for ODF is about 1200 pages, otoh OOXML (I looked it up out of curiosity) is out of 4 parts and the 1st one is the biggest one and is 5000+ pages.

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                        • #13
                          two things:
                          1. Does it really matter how complicated the documentation is? It has obviously been shown to be a great file format... and this way, we can implement it without relying so much on documentation (and also improve compatibility with MS Office)
                          2. Does this mean I can finally effing open macros created in MS Office in Libreoffice soon? I have a couple advanced budget spreadsheets that use MS Excel macros, but Libreoffice doesn't even notice it (forcing me to use Windows at least every payday, but usually more)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                            two things:
                            1. Does it really matter how complicated the documentation is? It has obviously been shown to be a great file format... and this way, we can implement it without relying so much on documentation (and also improve compatibility with MS Office)
                            2. Does this mean I can finally effing open macros created in MS Office in Libreoffice soon? I have a couple advanced budget spreadsheets that use MS Excel macros, but Libreoffice doesn't even notice it (forcing me to use Windows at least every payday, but usually more)
                            1. Yes. It really matters, just like it matters if you have to do 30 or 150 push ups. And no, it's just a modern file format, nothing special or great about OOXML, just XML with lots of rules, just like ODF.

                            2. 90% of the time you use 10% of the features, iow if you use advanced OOXML stuff on non-ms-office you're likely to get problems, no consolations here. And don't rely on LibreOffice supporting OOXML (as well as ms office) any time soon. Just don't waste your time on hoping. We've been hoping here for Wayland for 6 years and we're still not using the fucker. There's sooo many missed deadlines, so just don't expect stuff to happen soon, just use ms office.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mark45 View Post
                              1. Yes. It really matters, just like it matters if you have to do 30 or 150 push ups. And no, it's just a modern file format, nothing special or great about OOXML, just XML with lots of rules, just like ODF.

                              2. 90% of the time you use 10% of the features, iow if you use advanced OOXML stuff on non-ms-office you're likely to get problems, no consolations here. And don't rely on LibreOffice supporting OOXML (as well as ms office) any time soon. Just don't waste your time on hoping. We've been hoping here for Wayland for 6 years and we're still not using the fucker. There's sooo many missed deadlines, so just don't expect stuff to happen soon, just use ms office.
                              As I remember, a lot of that bulk in the OOXML spec is duplicated effort (eg. defining dates differently in different parts of the spec) and legacy bodges accumulated in the binary formats that Microsoft decided to keep.

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