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Improv Open ARM Board Failure Leads To A Ton Of In-Fighting

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  • Improv Open ARM Board Failure Leads To A Ton Of In-Fighting

    Phoronix: Improv Open ARM Board Failure Leads To A Ton Of In-Fighting

    Earlier this month I wrote about it looking like the Mer-powered Improv ARM board will not ship and now it's even more clear about the libre hardware project's dire situation with just open fights going on between the project and its former hardware supplier...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY5OTI

  • #2
    It's all sad, I would have liked to see EOMA-68 succeed. It's a great concept.

    Comment


    • #3
      Back when Vivaldi was announced, I thought it was a great step in the right direction for linux proper to take the field from Android, because I knew that if one group could do it it would be the KDE community. Well... KDE didn't fail, they got up and ported a whole bunch of software to have an additional touch interface, big names like Calligra, Kontact, and Marble as well as smaller software that would have been necessary to the success of Vivaldi. Problem is Make Play Live didn't follow through on it's part and completely fumbled not only the release of it's tablet but the Improv development board as well to the point where it's had a complete failure to launch. As much as I'm proud of the KDE community for all the work they put forward I am severely disappointed by MPL, and hope that all that hard work that KDE did will not just go to waste, and that some other company will pick up plasma active and vindicate the effort.

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      • #4
        The simple answer is to not do bad business which is what they did. If you doubt you can get the orders just go to a low volume manufacturer in the USA at least for the initial run.

        The Floppy EMU board is a prime example of a moderatly complex board made in the USA. The main thing lacking is BGA and I imaigne just about any fab worth its salt could reflow those. I would not be surprised if they could make the boards Rhombus Tech is designing... http://www.bigmessowires.com/2014/05...m-the-factory/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by curaga View Post
          It's all sad, I would have liked to see EOMA-68 succeed. It's a great concept.
          As I understand it, it's the Improv board that failed, not EOMA-68 itself. Or to phrase it differently, MakePlayLive messed up, not RhombusTech.
          In software, it doesn't matter how many people are using your product; it costs the same to release it to one person as it does to 1000. This isn't the case with hardware; economies of scale matter. The problem with open hardware is that the promise of openness by itself is insufficient to create the demand needed for high end specs, which further undermines the demand. Look at the Neo900 - that's probably one of the more justified open hardware projects (plenty of people, myself included, still use a N900), but the best they could do was a 1 GHz CPU with a 800x480 screen.

          The only way open hardware can work is in a kickstarter-type setup, where you get all the orders before hand, and even then there's no guarantee of success. If there are less than 1000 orders, it's not going to be viable, so it's best if it is killed off early on. The alternative is things just drag out, and people become completely pissed off. Anyone else remember Always Innovating?

          I think the best hope for anything like this is Project Ara - the SoC will probably be proprietary, but at least we can design open screens, keyboards etc. to use with it.

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          • #6
            This is unprofessional BS and it is putting a pimple on the history of linux. Get your s*** together mutha******!
            There are plenty of guys doing it right.

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            • #7
              Oh I know, I've been following arm-netbook for a few years now. It's that the failure of the Improv put the whole EOMA back for maybe a year, perhaps more. If they had made it and sold some thousands, money would have also flowed to other EOMA initiatives, bringing the whole ahead.

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              • #8
                One look at MakePlayLive's web site should have told anybody that this project never had a chance in hell.

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                • #9
                  No wonder Improv and Vivaldi failed with Seigo being busy to tell ubuntu/canonical how to run their stuff.

                  Time tells now who is going to deliver and who is just good at talking other projects down.

                  Sad do see the whole Linux and open source/Hardware Community loses a lot because of some egos.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by k1l_ View Post
                    No wonder Improv and Vivaldi failed with Seigo being busy to tell ubuntu/canonical how to run their stuff.

                    Time tells now who is going to deliver and who is just good at talking other projects down.

                    Sad do see the whole Linux and open source/Hardware Community loses a lot because of some egos.
                    How is Ubuntu/Canonical related to this in any way?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dee. View Post
                      How is Ubuntu/Canonical related to this in any way?
                      if there is any action from ubuntu or canonical, there is some shitstorm powered by the KDE guys.
                      if you think about what seigo told about the ubuntu-edge campaign back then and now see all the history of the Improv and the Vivaldi one might think that he should have focused more on do own things right and not focus on what others might do other ways.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by k1l_ View Post
                        if there is any action from ubuntu or canonical, there is some shitstorm powered by the KDE guys.
                        Really? So are you saying, Canonical is so lazy and inactive, they only take action about once or twice a year? I haven't seen any KDE powered shitstorm more often than that... so is that what you're trying to say? I don't think Canonical is quite that inactive...

                        if you think about what seigo told about the ubuntu-edge campaign back then
                        What did he say then? Did he say some things like, that Ubuntu-Edge would fail and wouldn't get the required sum of money to get made?

                        and now see all the history of the Improv and the Vivaldi one might think that he should have focused more on do own things right and not focus on what others might do other ways.
                        So you're saying, that the failure of both Improv and Vivaldi was directly caused by Aaron Seigo saying things that you disagree with about Canonical's decisions? How does that work? Can you explain it to me like I'm 5 years old? I have a hard time grasping this concept...

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                        • #13
                          Lol, I got quoted

                          Lol, I got quoted on a news page:

                          "As summarized yesterday by a contributor"

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                          • #14
                            This is everything open source in a nutshell... The starry eyed idealism on one side, while massively underestimating the amount of work involved, and also underestimating the damage the community does... Then there is the noise making side, which never really adds any value, apart from bloating ones own ego... And now everything has blown up, and everyone is shouting (including me, here, apparently). How often have we seen this already?

                            EOMA-68 is a good idea in itself, and it would've really flown if it had been ready to ship a year earlier (and this will always be its problem, in future). But Lkcl bit off way more than he could quickly chew, and it took a lot of work to get everything sorted, probably an order of magnitude more than he originally thought... Then there was the mistake of going with MPL exclusively...

                            The MPL side is all about noise, from where i sit. First the spark was loudly announced, with a rebadged device from a GPL breaching chinese manufacturer who stopped throwing this exact version of the hw over the hedge, then there was the vivaldi without anything concrete, then the improv was not even a tablet anymore at a time when proper OSHW development boards with the same specs became available on almost every streetcorner... Then there was the MPL website dying and being reborn with a layout and structure that did not exactly instill a lot of buyer confidence... No wonder that there were only 250 takers on the improv... And in all of this, I still do not understand why some KDE people would want to sell tablets themselves, let alone development boards...

                            Luke, you are on your own. If you are going to rescue this hardware you designed, then it's just you. As you too have endured so often, involving others only slows you down further, or will only be damaging. Just don't expect to have any gains from it anymore though, try to save some face still, if it all possible.

                            Aaron, it's been 3 times. Stop trying to sell hw yourself, and instead make it easy and desirable for people to install Mer/Plasma on existing hw. Start by stopping to see KDE/Plasma as the center of the universe, and instead help the various SoC communities out there (like linux-sunxi, linux-exynos, linux-rockchip, ...). Not by making noise, but by providing packaging and documentation. We, the SoC communities, do not need more noise, we need actual work.
                            Last edited by libv; 05-26-2014, 03:10 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dee. View Post
                              Really? So are you saying, Canonical is so lazy and inactive, they only take action about once or twice a year? I haven't seen any KDE powered shitstorm more often than that... so is that what you're trying to say? I don't think Canonical is quite that inactive...
                              so you are not even denying that kde powers shitstorms against canonical. that proves enough...


                              What did he say then? Did he say some things like, that Ubuntu-Edge would fail and wouldn't get the required sum of money to get made?
                              if he would said that in a civil manner i would not complain about that.


                              So you're saying, that the failure of both Improv and Vivaldi was directly caused by Aaron Seigo saying things that you disagree with about Canonical's decisions? How does that work? Can you explain it to me like I'm 5 years old? I have a hard time grasping this concept...
                              telling everyone that they have no clue what they are doing (and making a big shitstorm out of that) and on the other hand not beeing able to prove the points yourself while making it the selfappointed "right" way.

                              Some people work very hard (you including) to make some open source projects look bad. that is not what i think the interaction in the linux and opensource community should be like.


                              Other projects showed that the idea of open hardware is not dead at all, see https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop . i just think that people dont trust in projects that are recognized for just shitstorming and talking other projects down.

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