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  • Could you please take the god discussion in another thread it's OT here.

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    • Originally posted by MartinN View Post
      The best "explanation" I can offer you is, you have to be dealing with something in your life that you cannot overcome on your own (i.e. a specific form of sin that keeps showing up), or by worshipping anyone or anything else. If you ever choose to pick up the Bible....get baptized...surrender to the real God, versus a bazillion false ones - and you have no way of knowing that until you do.... You will find out why the God of the Bible who called Himself, "I am the true God" is the real one. It is much easier to dismiss someone who tells you of this as a "grade A moron" and just keep doing what you're doing... and never know real freedom from sin... or eternal life.

      I can't give you God...or his veracity. I merely say what I say... you either hear the truth, or you don't, and I've no idea who does or doesn't... but for the one that does and embraces it even if it cost him his life.... it's worth all the mudslinging and humiliation that I and others like me endure, because to save one soul, as C.S. Lewis put it, "is more important than the production or preservation of all the epic tragedies of the world."

      Take that as you will... The first step is to confess..... And we got some confessions here too , it was like pulling teeth because people would much rather posture, insult, analyze, than be authentic about their own crap....the bad and ugly side of their lives, outside of view of everyone if they can help it, FBI included . Note that I'm not against privacy in general, clearly I don't want people peeking in my bank account or matrimonial bed..... but shielding sin with privacy - that I will fight against even if it cost me my life.
      I was born and raised Christian. The views I held on my sins made me feel worthless and were detrimental to my mental health, to put it lightly. All the help I prayed for never came.

      Then a roommate asked me why I thought God cared about sexual sins. He showed me how small we are on a universal scale. "God made all this... and he loves you but will punish you for eternity for premarital sex? How does that make sense?"

      It didn't. And so I, like many others, left Christianity. In doing so, I feel like a new man. I worry less, I'm kinder, more open with others. I bring with me many of the moral values I learned from my old religion, and I put others' feelings and needs ahead of mine.

      But I don't need Jesus to do that, and I know many others that don't either.

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      • Martin, listen to yourself:

        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
        the God of the Bible who called Himself, "I am the true God" is the real one...you either hear the truth, or you don't
        Hear from whom? Does god visit you in your home, sit on your couch, and reveal him/her/itself to you? Or do you hear voices in your head? How do you know these voices are true, in the way we can know that 2+2=4 is true?

        Your "true god" is certainly quite selective about who he/she/it likes. Consider the fate of those involved in a crash of a small plane into a street market in Congo a few years ago. At least 36 people died, mostly local residents on the ground, as the burning plane tore through the market. Turns out there was a family of missionaries on board who survived. The father said, "I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived." What about the people who died -- did god not have plans for them? Smug and self-righteous attitudes like these are examples of why we find your god and his/her/its followers so reprehensible.

        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
        but shielding sin with privacy - that I will fight against even if it cost me my life.
        Meddling in the private lives of others, then, is something you willfully chose to do. No wonder you don't have any friends.

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        • I get it - my inability to convince you may come across as smug and self-righteous, which in my earnest desire to bring people to Christ has a tendency to rub people the "wrong way" (as far as the nonbeliever can see).... but Steve, my "self-righteousness and smugness" - which can only be recognized by someone who is just as smug and self-righteous is only superseded by your hankering and enjoyment of lust.. .concubines .


          It takes one to know one Steve - it's just that we're polarized in the opposite direction. You still need to repent.

          Originally posted by steveriley View Post
          Meddling in the private lives of others, then, is something you willfully chose to do. No wonder you don't have any friends.

          Comment


          • You rarely respond to specifics, do you? You completely ignored the article I cited. Locals shopping in the market died, while a western (white) family claimed god saved them. Answer me this: why do you love a god who clearly favors white people over black?

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            • Originally posted by steveriley View Post
              You rarely respond to specifics, do you? You completely ignored the article I cited. Locals shopping in the market died, while a western (white) family claimed god saved them. Answer me this: why do you love a god who clearly favors white people over black?
              No, I do. I'm just not going to respond to your specifics because let's face it, you're not interested in hearing anything about God anyway....

              Where do you get that God loves white people over black from? The only thing God -favors- is glorifying Him and our occasional obedience. Since we're capable of neither, He sent Christ to atone, so that hopefully some of us can repent... you know, those whom He elects.

              Racism is just more sin. Why has racism been a problem throughout human history? The answer is simple – sin. We harbor evil thoughts about other people and commit evil acts against other people because of sin (Romans 3:10-23). Sin appears to make us innately suspicious of people who look differently from us. Only through the transformative power of salvation in Jesus Christ can racism be overcome (2 Corinthians 5:17). Only through seeing all other people as being created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26) can we rid ourselves of racial prejudices. Racism is clearly, biblically speaking, evil (Ephesians 2:14; James 2:8).

              Is it always wrong to be prejudiced? For example, if a convenience store owner was repeatedly robbed by bald Azerbaijanis wearing blue t-shirts, would it be wrong for him to be prejudiced against the next bald Azerbaijani who is wearing a blue t-shirt that comes into his store? Would it be wrong for him to take precautions to prevent himself from being robbed again? Now, of course, I am not saying he should prevent bald Azerbaijanis from entering his store or automatically assume that all bald Azerbaijanis are criminals. But, if you are repeatedly harassed by someone with a certain appearance, is it wrong to then be “prejudiced” against people with that appearance? I am not entirely sure. Is it understandable? Definitely, yes.

              A similar question was raised in response to the September 11 attacks. Can special attention be given towards people of Middle Eastern descent in regards to security screenings before being allowed to board a plane? Is racial profiling always a bad thing? It seems immensely logical for more attention to be given to 20 year old Saudi Arabian males than to 75 year old Caucasian grandmothers. But, the screams against the tyranny of racism prevailed, and race is therefore not allowed to be factored into who is screened more closely. This seems incredible and ridiculous to me…but I imagine I would feel differently if I was a 20 year old Saudi Arabian male repeatedly being frisked at airports.

              At the same time, I cannot find a biblical injunction against being wary of a particular type of person if you have repeatedly been wronged by that particular type of person. But, whatever the case, we should never judge an entire ethnicity based on the evil actions of one member of that ethnicity, or many members of a particular ethnicity for that matter. Martin Luther King’s dream was of a nation where people are not “judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” But, how do you evaluate the content of a person’s character when you only have a split second to evaluate a situation and react?

              Same crap with Zimmerman... With his hero complex, he killed a black kid. Was he doing it intentionally? Hell no (thus he was acquitted). But he provoked the situation and definitely contributed to the death of Trayvon - and that's a much heavier burden to live with than anything else he will encounter in this life.... as is already showing up, his guilt is having him f**k up his life again and again... O.J. Simpson style.

              You don't just sweep your responsibility ( however legally justifiable) for someone's death under the rug. God sees all and exacts appropriate punishment (ongoingly, until he turns or dies). God is good, yes, but he is ALWAYS just... and not always good. Same with other forms of sin, even if you are "consensual" and "not hurting others" ...

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              • Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
                Could you please take the god discussion in another thread it's OT here.
                It's a 3 lettered discussion man.. FBI...God... CIA... NSA.. notice there's no "the" in front of any of these words .

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                • Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  Where do you get that God loves white people over black from?
                  A white missionary claiming "god has plans for my family" while standing among the carcasses of dozens of dead black people can certainly lead one to conclude that this god favors white over black.

                  Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  The only thing God -favors- is glorifying Him and our occasional obedience.
                  Dictators and tyrants make these kinds of demands. Therefore, god = tyrant.

                  Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  those whom He elects
                  Jesus H. Christ, we've been arguing with a Calvinist this entire time? Sheesh.

                  Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  At the same time, I cannot find a biblical injunction against being wary of a particular type of person if you have repeatedly been wronged by that particular type of person.
                  This sentence is the summary of most of what you wrote: no biblical injunction against racism, therefore a bunch of handwavy blathering.

                  Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  his guilt is having him f**k up his life
                  You really should adjust your vocabulary, you don't sound like a christian when you employ language like this.

                  Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                  God sees all and exacts appropriate punishment
                  Like every other religious zealot, you have a perverse attachment to revenge and retribution. You're the one who needs to repent from being beholden to iron age fairy tales.

                  -----

                  Anyway, I'm done here. Yes, feel free to have the last word.

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                  • Originally posted by cbgoding View Post
                    I was born and raised Christian. The views I held on my sins made me feel worthless and were detrimental to my mental health, to put it lightly. All the help I prayed for never came.

                    Then a roommate asked me why I thought God cared about sexual sins. He showed me how small we are on a universal scale. "God made all this... and he loves you but will punish you for eternity for premarital sex? How does that make sense?"

                    It didn't. And so I, like many others, left Christianity. In doing so, I feel like a new man. I worry less, I'm kinder, more open with others. I bring with me many of the moral values I learned from my old religion, and I put others' feelings and needs ahead of mine.

                    But I don't need Jesus to do that, and I know many others that don't either.
                    God loves, and BECAUSE He loves, He judges too, not despite it. You have a funny idea about God, like I did for the longest while - you seem to perceive it as a cart blanche for sin. I've just recently had this discussion - why not just repent on your deathbed, and you will be in heaven after your life unravels due to sinning on a daily basis, a la Madoff style - who at one point realized he screwed up majorly, HAD a chance to confess and clean it up, but chose to CONTINUE in his sin and get caught decades later and is now dying of cancer in jail?

                    The logic goes, we are saved by grace, yes, so technically the thief or murdered who's about to have a needle pushed into his vein, could just say "I confess Christ as Lord and Savior" and be forgiven. But that is a tall order, and most people I know, who are rabid sinners, will stay rabid sinners until death, and are unlikely to be given faith and repentance in this life.

                    I don't choose who God's elect are - that's His job. All I do is (hopefully) stir people up...shake them from their complacency... piss them off.... for a good reason. Their response is one of "f**k God, I'm gonna do what I think is right" or "I'm screwed, and I need God - now" and repent in an instant, as the journey of recovery and coming out of the sin(k) hole starts, with great pains, anxieties, depressions, bumps, uncertainties, doubt, fear... etc.

                    As bad as this sounds, you may have tried in earnest to repent and have faith - but it wasn't given to you at the time, so you backslid... and invented your own moral code. And from the looks of it, it seems like you are somewhat resigned about God at this point, perhaps maybe you even stopped seeking him and have grown complacent in your current behavior. And that is exactly how it is supposed to be.

                    Amuse me for a while... when you're alone next time, why don't you ask God, literally, ASK out loud, why have you forsaken me Lord? Why have you not given me repentance and faith? I admitted my fornication - but I've been unable to turn. What's it going to take? Then sit, meditate a little in the quiet of the room you're in, and just observe what comes up for you.... if you're human, it will revolve around either unconfessed sin (and/or amends for it), or... as is the case with most of us who are generally "good" people (you know, "law abiding"... out of fear, but not God-fearing necessarily), it is a result of unforgiveness. Whom have you not forgiven? The incident with the roomie isn't the first instance you felt shame over your own behavior... take a stroll down memory lane ... whom else are you harboring resentments against? It's ALWAYS relational - there's no "JUST ME ALONE" in anything... IF it's not against another person, a human being, it's against God (whether you recognize it or not). When we're lazy, we're not necessarily hurting anyone.... so it looks like it's not a sin. Yet..it is. Against God.

                    I've got no answers for you, unfortunately, other than to tell you to never give up on God. Those who wait on Him, sometimes even for decades, never ever regret it.

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                    • No Steve... YOU have the last word. Phoronix isn't the last word. Your next action will be, and I'm not witness to it.

                      You're right, my vocabulary isn't quite up to snuff, but I am actively working on it. You did notice I block out the word, so it isn't completely spelled out.

                      Calvinism is most definitely biblical. So is Arminianism. We can argue about this, and I love these types of discussions - the problem is, no amount of arguing is going to prevent you from going back into your sin hole today, tomorrow... until you explode. Whether you're elect or whether you choose - it's really all the same, you either WILL repent by faith or WILL NOT, and in 3D spacetime, your life will alter or will not.

                      For the umpteenth time Steve... if you are mistaking my rough style for "revenge and retribution", I can't help you. You as well as anyone who reads this, will INEVITABLY go back to what you were doing before. Consider this longass thread on privacy/FBI and God a BLIP on your radar, that hopefully dinged you out of your self-righteousness and complacency. If it didn't, just as well.

                      Please respond with whatever, and I'll stop - so you don't feel I need to have the "last word". Neither you nor I have the last word...this isn't some shouting competition. It's my being aghast at how far America has departed from God's path for it, it tears into my heart daily.... and if I can do SOMETHING about it, then talking about it on a FBI/privacy thread is it, because I feel it's very apropos to talk about God in the context of "privacy". You're not going to see me talk about this on any other types of threads.

                      And if Michael doesn't like it, he can close the thread anytime. I'm not gonna say a word.

                      Originally posted by steveriley View Post
                      A white missionary claiming "god has plans for my family" while standing among the carcasses of dozens of dead black people can certainly lead one to conclude that this god favors white over black.


                      Dictators and tyrants make these kinds of demands. Therefore, god = tyrant.


                      Jesus H. Christ, we've been arguing with a Calvinist this entire time? Sheesh.


                      This sentence is the summary of most of what you wrote: no biblical injunction against racism, therefore a bunch of handwavy blathering.


                      You really should adjust your vocabulary, you don't sound like a christian when you employ language like this.


                      Like every other religious zealot, you have a perverse attachment to revenge and retribution. You're the one who needs to repent from being beholden to iron age fairy tales.

                      -----

                      Anyway, I'm done here. Yes, feel free to have the last word.

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