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I got robbed at gunpoint today....

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Can you think of any other country that legalizes civilian gun ownership?
    How is that relevant? It is illegal to rob someone. And even more so with a firearm. Besides, the vast majority of these instances occur in cities where gun ownership is illegal. Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, DC, etc. It's pretty dishonest to associate gun ownership with criminal activity.

    Do I even need to mention Mexico, where private gun ownership is illegal, but 10,000+ people are killed each year with them by violent criminals? Gun control laws only help criminals, and punish law abiding citizens.
    Last edited by torsionbar28; 09-13-2013, 11:45 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
      How is that relevant? It is illegal to rob someone. And even more so with a firearm. Besides, the vast majority of these instances occur in cities where gun ownership is illegal. Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, DC, etc. It's pretty dishonest to associate gun ownership with criminal activity.

      Do I even need to mention Mexico, where private gun ownership is illegal, but 10,000+ people are killed each year with them by violent criminals? Gun control laws only help criminals, and punish law abiding citizens.
      Good luck with explaining it to stalinist

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      • #63
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        I seriously doubt that this gun was legally purchased. I'm convinced it was black market. Of course I didnt ask the guy where he got his gun, but from the looks of him I doubt very much that he got it through legal means.

        Guns are commodities too. Just like any other black market commodity, if you want to kill the black market you need to deregulate extensively. If this guys only means of getting a gun was through the legal market, then I doubt very much that he would have had a gun to rob me with.

        Starting today I'm beginning the process of getting a handgun of my own. I'll also need a license to carry a concealed weapon. And I'll need legal permission from my employer to have it at work with me. There are training courses I'll be taking and certificates I'll be getting. If I do this I'll do it the right way. I want to make sure that I am as safe and responsible with my own gun as can possibly be.
        Good luck getting trained and becoming certified. Next time you can hopefully defend yourself. Sucks to have to resort to that but there has been and always will be evil. Arming yourself is a logical and legal precaution.

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        • #64
          Highly appriciable decision.Good step I like your risk taking potential and ability to analyze the situation.Thaks for the nice contribution.

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          • #65
            I also got robbed at gun point a few weeks ago, it was in Sydney, Australia. After I gave the bastard my money, he hit me in the face, took my keys and locked me in the trunk of my car. I though I was being kidnap but he didn't drove the car away.

            It took 5 hours for the shitty police to get me out of there after someone hear me knocking on the trunk.
            Last edited by doggobot; 10-17-2013, 10:51 PM.

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            • #66
              This is all ridiculous.

              In the US we have the right to own firearms, and the 99.9th percentile is responsible with them. It is an inalienable right of the people. For the political left to accomplish a ban is a matter of ignoring the constitution, passing laws they know they cannot get away with legitimately, and either buying off or blackmailing judges on the SCOTUS using NSA dossiers.

              For them to enforce it is another thing. They would have to go door to door with SWAT teams, breaking in and killing those who refuse to comply. Make no mistake: Americans will fight back. You would have to MURDER families of good people, whom have done nothing wrong beyond refusing to comply with a fascistic pseudo-pacifist agenda to turn us into cattle resembling the people of the UK or Australia.

              To the naysayers: disarm yourselves, you have that option. Move to a country where guns are banned if you want. But advocating banning guns here is advocating mass murder, and the only reason you can sit there guiltless with your cup of tea screaming "disarm!" is because you wont be the ones kicking down doors killing the fathers, sons and military veterans who refuse to become slaves of the state.
              Last edited by kazetsukai; 11-01-2013, 11:09 AM.

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              • #67
                no simple solution?

                Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                The problem with that is that 99.9% of cop work is dull, repetitive, paperwork that a high school dropout can do. Many places tend to discourage over-qualified applicants because they just get bored and quit quickly anyway, wasting the time and money it takes to get them up to speed.

                I agree it would be nice to have better qualified cops, the same way it would be nice if teachers were better. I'm just not sure there's a simple solution.
                I rarely ask, but for "99.9%....paperwork" I want to see some cites. Cops as a rule don't like paperwork; according to what I read, and those serving and retired cops I've spoken with, paperwork averages a shade less than an hour per day - it varies a bit with department and precinct. Some cops will avoid paperwork by not making stops or arrests depending on the infraction; others go out of their way to do just those things so they can "take a break" by going back to the shed, sitting at a desk, and going through the ordeal of filling out forms.

                Requiring a masters degree for being a cop is [deleted] b.s. - in fact no degree whatsoever is needed, unless there is a practical two-year associates on offer which dealt heavily with law, procedure, and practicum.

                A problem is that if one gets people smart enough to be good cops they'd be too smart to be hired.

                From http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/01/co...ople-from-beco regarding the recent ABC news story

                "Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

                Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average."


                One big problem is not intelligence per se but the training and indoctrination of today's police. On paper the coursework seems reasonable, both in a two year program and later at the academy. But the indoctrination is focussed on the practical aspects of being what amounts to an occupying military force. Effective psychological screening is largely absent, in practice, at least from I can discern; while the more obvious nut-jobs (blatant sociopaths, for instance) are mostly excluded, many of the cops I've observed and spoken with, especially in the past decade or so, are frequently not living on the same planet as I do.
                There is the matter of personal safety - too many cops get killed, usually in the line of duty. But what happens is that in lieu of more effective training in being safer on the job, an institutional paranoia sets in where everyone encountered is a priori the enemy - not ten years ago I saw three cops repeatedly taser an un-armed, totally un-resisting guy of maybe 130-140 pounds, apparently for not getting onto his knees quickly enough to suit them. This is the new normal.
                Many cops became cops because they truly wanted to "serve and protect." These days there's still some of that - but it's driven out by on-the-job indoctrination.
                Cops are not wanted for their ability to think, reason, and deal with matters on a situational basis. They are wanted to behave robotically according to procedure. A cop can beat, maim, kill, but so long as proper procedure is followed their is usually little problem. If, however, a cop tries to deal with someone or some situation in a rational manner, as we might otherwise suppose he is supposed to, he can face censure or dismissal.

                As for teachers, pay them better, respect them more, and get most parents and admin off their backs. Again, most teachers go into it because they want to help educate (_not_ indoctrinate, which is largely what our educational system has become these days) young'uns - to maybe do better than they were done to, to help 'em survive and maybe prosper in the brave new world we've built. They tend to burn out rather quickly, though; the system and our society see to that.

                These and many other matters would be greatly improved if citizens did their duty as citizens, but that's been going downhill since the War. (That's WWII, for you young'uns.)

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                • #68
                  congrats on getting a gat

                  Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  Starting today I'm beginning the process of getting a handgun of my own. I'll also need a license to carry a concealed weapon. And I'll need legal permission from my employer to have it at work with me. There are training courses I'll be taking and certificates I'll be getting. If I do this I'll do it the right way. I want to make sure that I am as safe and responsible with my own gun as can possibly be.
                  Having your own piece can improve your outlook - emotionally, psychologically, rationally.

                  Be warned, however. Unless you spend twenty hours a week for a year training in CQB, with a minimum of one hour a day thereafter with an intensive two-week annual refresher, there is one guarantee only. That is the moment you are in it, somewhere between 90-99% of all your training and practice will vanish.

                  You will become all thumbs and mittens - you'll fumble for your weapon, like as not drop it or shoot yourself in the foot, and any skill you've acquired in point-and-shoot will enable you to hit a barn side at ten feet. Seriously. Be prepared for that. That's why many civilian shops will tell you acquire center mass over front sight and go bang bang until you're empty.

                  Ask anyone who's worked personal protection for Secret Service or who's done hostage rescue, heck, anyone who's been a SEAL or the like. Dudes tell me the only reason they're not full time hollering under their breath "Please God don't let me screw up!" is that they're too busy trying to get the job done and trying very, very hard not to screw up. And yes, afterwards everbody's knees turn to jelly.

                  So I hope everything goes well with you, and that you never have to find out.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                    Can you think of any other country that legalizes civilian gun ownership?
                    Yes, Iraq. After the US's invasion of Iraq, civilian gun ownership became legal there

                    No, that is not a joke, though I wouldn't blame the US for it, it's just a very ironic coincidence I guess.

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                    • #70
                      Experience counts too

                      Originally posted by kermidge View Post
                      Having your own piece can improve your outlook - emotionally, psychologically, rationally.

                      Be warned, however. Unless you spend twenty hours a week for a year training in CQB, with a minimum of one hour a day thereafter with an intensive two-week annual refresher, there is one guarantee only. That is the moment you are in it, somewhere between 90-99% of all your training and practice will vanish.

                      You will become all thumbs and mittens - you'll fumble for your weapon, like as not drop it or shoot yourself in the foot, and any skill you've acquired in point-and-shoot will enable you to hit a barn side at ten feet. Seriously. Be prepared for that. That's why many civilian shops will tell you acquire center mass over front sight and go bang bang until you're empty.

                      Ask anyone who's worked personal protection for Secret Service or who's done hostage rescue, heck, anyone who's been a SEAL or the like. Dudes tell me the only reason they're not full time hollering under their breath "Please God don't let me screw up!" is that they're too busy trying to get the job done and trying very, very hard not to screw up. And yes, afterwards everbody's knees turn to jelly.


                      So I hope everything goes well with you, and that you never have to find out.
                      Experience also counts. You can train and train, but it's situations you've never seen before and only trained for that are most likely to get you. With the number of times I've had to defend myself with field expedient weapons, I do tend to go on autopilot and come out on top. I'm still here after resisting more armed and strong-armed robbery and gaybashing attempts than I can count them all. On the other hand, I also remember the first time I ever saw a deer-and it was from a car's drivers seat. They were not yet common and I had never seen one before, so my brain "threw an exception" and I wound up hitting the deer, thankfully too slow to smash up the car and she was able to get back up too.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        I seriously doubt that this gun was legally purchased. I'm convinced it was black market. Of course I didnt ask the guy where he got his gun, but from the looks of him I doubt very much that he got it through legal means.
                        while this may be true... in a land where guns are legal and quite common amog people it is easy to hide illegal guns.
                        in countries without such legal guns all available it is much much harder to acquire illegal ones from a black market.

                        there is no civilized country other than the usa where you can get guns legal or not as easy.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                          Can you think of any other country that legalizes civilian gun ownership?
                          Whether or not it is legal in a country to carry firearms, you'll have people that has them anyway. What makes it fairly obvious is the use of the word 'bucks' which I mostly associate with USA, though I guess Canada, Australia, and a few other countries could be using it as well.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
                            This is all ridiculous.

                            In the US we have the right to own firearms, and the 99.9th percentile is responsible with them. It is an inalienable right of the people. For the political left to accomplish a ban is a matter of ignoring the constitution, passing laws they know they cannot get away with legitimately, and either buying off or blackmailing judges on the SCOTUS using NSA dossiers.

                            For them to enforce it is another thing. They would have to go door to door with SWAT teams, breaking in and killing those who refuse to comply. Make no mistake: Americans will fight back. You would have to MURDER families of good people, whom have done nothing wrong beyond refusing to comply with a fascistic pseudo-pacifist agenda to turn us into cattle resembling the people of the UK or Australia.

                            To the naysayers: disarm yourselves, you have that option. Move to a country where guns are banned if you want. But advocating banning guns here is advocating mass murder, and the only reason you can sit there guiltless with your cup of tea screaming "disarm!" is because you wont be the ones kicking down doors killing the fathers, sons and military veterans who refuse to become slaves of the state.
                            Really? As long as we need money to survive in this world, we're all slaves of the state!
                            How are people that lives in a country where weapons are banned, cattle, any more than people that lives in countries with guns? I come from Denmark, and in all of Europe guns are banned. Why on earth would that make us cattle? We have our voices, democracy n' all that. We have no need to to threaten anyone to comply with our opinions.
                            You WILL see a few armed robberies, but those are very rare. Guns are quite expensive and hard to come by, so if you had one, you wouldn't use it to get peanuts. Also, there's a lot of people that pays with creditcards, so there's very little cash. We have gangs that carries weapons, but they rarely hurt anyone outside of other gangs. It's all about control over the drug-market, so they may break in and steal from warehouses, they may be at war with other gangs, but as long as you're not in the crossfire, you're pretty safe. The Police is doing what they can to rid the cities of those gangs, but as long as there's a drug-market, there will be gangs.

                            As for the SWAT-teams. Do you really believe that ANYONE in their right mind, would attempt to take out a group, likely to be more people than there are guns in the house, well trained, and wearing body-armor? No proper parent would ever choose a gun over their children. Then you might argue that you have the gun to protect your children, but how safe are you really if you have the state on your back.

                            I will say though, that because of the amount of guns that exists in the US, it's likely to be safer to be able to defend one self, as many small time criminals are likely to posses guns, even if SWAT went around, knocking on doors. So yeah, ridding a country of that size of guns, would be troublesome for the population, but I strongly disagree that citizens of countries where guns are banned are cattle. I don't care how many guns you have. Unless you have an army with military training that's able to match the army in your country, you're still cattle, if not being cattle, means being able to take on the state.

                            I'd rather live in a country where the chance of me being threatened with a gun, is close to none existing, and not have a gun, than live in a country, where it's a good idea to posses a gun, to be able to defend yourself, in the somewhat likely event that someone pulls a gun on you.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by UraniumDeer View Post
                              I'd rather live in a country where the chance of me being threatened with a gun, is close to none existing, and not have a gun, than live in a country, where it's a good idea to posses a gun, to be able to defend yourself, in the somewhat likely event that someone pulls a gun on you.
                              you won't get this into the head of a weapon industries slave. it is one of the most successfull marketing lies ever: arm yourself to defend your freedom... (taken that i am only talking about first world countries).

                              you must be really damn narrow minded to beleive in this... but you know, every country has the right of its own narrow minded people and every country has them, more or less the same amount, just of different manifestation.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Luke View Post
                                Experience also counts. You can train and train, but it's situations you've never seen before and only trained for that are most likely to get you. With the number of times I've had to defend myself with field expedient weapons, I do tend to go on autopilot and come out on top. I'm still here after resisting more armed and strong-armed robbery and gaybashing attempts than I can count them all. On the other hand, I also remember the first time I ever saw a deer-and it was from a car's drivers seat. They were not yet common and I had never seen one before, so my brain "threw an exception" and I wound up hitting the deer, thankfully too slow to smash up the car and she was able to get back up too.
                                And you're right, of course: experience counts, sometimes for a lot. From limited but more than I cared for experience, I know the first time for a number of things purely throws one for a loop, even if for an instant. After the first, your mind and body have some frame of reference to go by, which often can help. (And yeah, there are a lot of conditionals in my reply; there are lot of those same or similar conditonals in real life, as well.)

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