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  • #16
    Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
    While true, it's still better than the current setup. Even if they'd been getting corruption for a few months before it was noticed, a good backup setup would still let them go back that far, and they can work out how to reconstruct subsequent activity on top of the restored repository. And that's better than the current setup, where they survived only out of pure luck, apparently in the belief that having redundancy from the mirror system is good enough. Wrong!
    From what I have read, they actually do regular tarball backups of the repository. Still, losing days of commits is not fun. They were extremely lucky that one server had a glitch that kept it from updating from master during the window that it was serving corrupted updates. That being said, the entire incident would have been avoided had they put master on ZFS.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      Yeah, Linux and Open Source are shaky.

      In fact I had an ext4 corruption on a partition I mount RO daily and remount RW maybe once a week to write a file or two.
      This is bunch of some morons bullshit. Furthermore, Linux is the most stable and reliable OS (that matters, I don't care about some casio watch "operating systems"). Winblows just blows up. Linux will have btrfs and Linux can use ZFS as well, while you can only dream about them on Windows.
      Last edited by Pawlerson; 03-25-2013, 06:10 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
        This is bunch of some morons bullshit. Furthermore, Linux is the most stable and reliable OS (that matters, I don't care about some casio watch "operating systems"). Winblows just blows up.
        Solaris is more reliable. This would not have happened had the master mirror been running a recent installation of Solaris.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ryao View Post
          Solaris is more reliable. This would not have happened had the master mirror been running a recent installation of Solaris.
          You've got to be kidding me. It's a dead cow. Tell me why nearly nobody is using it? Btw. what are you doing for Gentoo? Last time you were trolling for bsd and now you're trolling for slowlaris. Get the facts till you write another bullshit next time:

          http://unixetc.co.uk/2012/01/22/zfs-...nlinked-files/
          https://forums.oracle.com/forums/thr...art=0&tstart=0 unreliable slowlaris and zfs (somebody should tell KDE devs to not use it).
          Last edited by Pawlerson; 03-25-2013, 06:27 PM.

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          • #20
            The Punishment, Hodja Nasreddin

            Hodja told his son to go get some water from the well.
            Before the son left, Hodja slapped him and shouted, ''And make sure you don’t break the jug!''

            The boy began crying, and a bystander noticed this and said,
            ''Why did you hit him? He hasn’t done anything wrong.''

            Hodja replied, ''Well, better to hit him now
            than to hit him afterwards if he does end up breaking it. That would be too late.''




            I would ask Hodja Nasreddin to slap birdie and ryao right now.

            Twice.

            One time - for not acting before.
            Second time - for posting "wisdom from the manhole" when its too late.
            Last edited by brosis; 03-25-2013, 06:23 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
              You've got to be kidding me. It's a dead cow. Tell me why nearly nobody is using it? Btw. what are you doing for Gentoo? Last time you were trolling for bsd and now you're trolling for slowlaris.
              I am not sure how you determined that Solaris' marketshare. Anyway, the open source version of Solaris is fairly popular at various data centers. Its kernel is by far better written from a reliability stand point than others that I have seen.

              As for Gentoo, I tend to be all over the place, although the majority of the things that I do involve the kernel in some way. The most of the time that I spend on kernel stuff is spent on ZFSOnLinux, although I touch other areas too. Yesterday, I spent some time with another Gentoo developer on Nouveau reclocking support. In specific, we are now able to reclock both desktop and laptop versions of the NV92. The patch is not ready for upstream yet though.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ryao View Post
                I am not sure how you determined that Solaris' marketshare. Anyway, the open source version of Solaris is fairly popular at various data centers. Its kernel is by far better written from a reliability stand point than others that I have seen.

                As for Gentoo, I tend to be all over the place, although the majority of the things that I do involve the kernel in some way. The most of the time that I spend on kernel stuff is spent on ZFSOnLinux, although I touch other areas too. Yesterday, I spent some time with another Gentoo developer on Nouveau reclocking support. In specific, we are now able to reclock both desktop and laptop versions of the NV92. The patch is not ready for upstream yet though.
                Simply, by netcraft, for example. It's kernel is real mess and it's bloated as hell. As I have shown it's not reliable at all. So called open source version of solaris is at even worse state than solaris itself, so stop that bullshit right now. Nobody serious is using "open source" slowlaris and there are few (who didn't switch to Linux yet) that are using Oracle's Solaris.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                  Simply, by netcraft, for example. It's kernel is real mess and it's bloated as hell. As I have shown it's not reliable at all. So called open source version of solaris is at even worse state than solaris itself, so stop that bullshit right now. Nobody serious is using "open source" slowlaris and there are few (who didn't switch to Linux yet) that are using Oracle's Solaris.
                  Netcraft surveys webservers. It would not catch the servers powering the Joyent cloud or any of the data analytics servers out there. It also would not catch things like Netflix's CDN, which runs FreeBSD.

                  Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                  You've got to be kidding me. It's a dead cow. Tell me why nearly nobody is using it? Btw. what are you doing for Gentoo? Last time you were trolling for bsd and now you're trolling for slowlaris. Get the facts till you write another bullshit next time:

                  http://unixetc.co.uk/2012/01/22/zfs-...nlinked-files/
                  https://forums.oracle.com/forums/thr...art=0&tstart=0 unreliable slowlaris and zfs (somebody should tell KDE devs to not use it).
                  It looks like you amended your post. Honestly, the latter link does not show any problem whatsoever. The former does talk about a problem, but it does not involve data loss and in all likelihood, it has been fixed.

                  If you think that a few random posts on the internet reflect the quality of an operating system, then you really should not use Linux. Google can provide you with numerous posts complaining about Linux-based operating systems. I regularly find problems in code common to all GNU/Linux operating systems in Gentoo.
                  Last edited by ryao; 03-25-2013, 06:43 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ryao View Post
                    It looks like you amended your post. Honestly, the latter link does not show any problem whatsoever. The former does talk about a problem, but it does not involve data loss and in all likelihood, it has been fixed.

                    If you think that a few random posts on the internet reflect the quality of an operating system, then you really should not use Linux. Google can provide you with numerous posts complaining about Linux-based operating systems. I regularly find problems in code common to all GNU/Linux operating systems in Gentoo.
                    You're doing the same hippo. There are dozens of slowlaris data loss, so stop kidding me. It's obvious you'll find more info about Linux, because Solaris is dead cow as I already mentioned.

                    http://www.progtalk.com/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=571
                    http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...oracle-on.html
                    http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...-zfs-data.html
                    Last edited by Pawlerson; 03-25-2013, 06:47 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                      You've got to be kidding me. It's a dead cow. Tell me why nearly nobody is using it? Btw. what are you doing for Gentoo? Last time you were trolling for bsd and now you're trolling for slowlaris.
                      well to be honest nobody uses solaris because is lot more complicated than linux itself, specially on sparc hardware but Solaris is still a hell of an OS for server side operations and ZFS is quite an awesome FS[not the fastest but have many many awesome techs].

                      Sure i prefer Linux hands down but solaris is not about speed and never was, Solaris is for fault tolerance ambients and in that sense is king of the hill since 2 decades ago alongside AIX and IBM Mainframe OS.

                      So your are gravely mistaken solaris/AIX as a linux rival and they are not. For Example:

                      1.) Solaris: fault tolerant ambients in certified hardware normally tied to Hugely Massive Databases and Java App Servers or Massive SAP systems that require at least 99.99% uptime with a ridiculousness of ABI compatibility certified timeframe.[in recent years redhat have taken an piece of the pie here]
                      2.) AIX: in many countries is your bank Best Friend from workstations to P System Data centers integrated with S Mainframes Systems and is only considered for utmost secure systems.[since is EXPENSIVE!!!!! but well if you pay $1 millon in just hardware it won't hurt your budget to much]
                      3.) Linux: is versatile enough and secure enough and stable enough for everything else.

                      Sure linux is faster and everything we know but in the examples 1 and 2 those are multi million $$$ systems with strict warranties with very expensive expert in situ handling it, so this ppl is going to go with the most recommended/Tested/Accepted plataform available that guarantee you get your money back and for now AIX and Solaris are kings with RHEL fighting its way up

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
                        So your are gravely mistaken solaris/AIX as a linux rival and they are not. For Example:

                        1.) Solaris: fault tolerant ambients in certified hardware normally tied to Hugely Massive Databases and Java App Servers or Massive SAP systems that require at least 99.99% uptime with a ridiculousness of ABI compatibility certified timeframe.[in recent years redhat have taken an piece of the pie here]
                        2.) AIX: in many countries is your bank Best Friend from workstations to P System Data centers integrated with S Mainframes Systems and is only considered for utmost secure systems.[since is EXPENSIVE!!!!! but well if you pay $1 millon in just hardware it won't hurt your budget to much]
                        3.) Linux: is versatile enough and secure enough and stable enough for everything else.

                        Sure linux is faster and everything we know but in the examples 1 and 2 those are multi million $$$ systems with strict warranties with very expensive expert in situ handling it, so this ppl is going to go with the most recommended/Tested/Accepted plataform available that guarantee you get your money back and for now AIX and Solaris are kings with RHEL fighting its way up
                        I'm not mistaken at all. Operating system and company who does things like this one can't be taken seriously:

                        http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...oss-still.html

                        Those "massive" SAP systems are jokes compared to HPC or SGI big irons. I hope you'll agree.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                          I'm not mistaken at all. Operating system and company who does things like this one can't be taken seriously:

                          http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...oss-still.html

                          Those "massive" SAP systems are jokes compared to HPC or SGI big irons. I hope you'll agree.
                          There is a saying in news. If a dog bites a man, it is not news, but if a man bites a dog, it is news. The fact that Solaris had such bugs is news is a much better situation than the situation with Linux where such bugs are so common place that no one cares.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ryao View Post
                            There is a saying in news. If a dog bites a man, it is not news, but if a man bites a dog, it is news. The fact that Solaris had such bugs is news is a much better situation than the situation with Linux where such bugs are so common place that no one cares.
                            If one is killed at war, it's not news, but if ten is killed in the peace time, it is news. If you don't get it: Linux is by far more popular - it's on the war. Futhermore, it's not Linux that ignores data corruption bugs, but slowlaris as I already proven it:

                            http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...oss-still.html

                            Btw. Linux is used in stock exchanges while slowlaris can only dream about this. And stock exchange is one of the most critical workload where only most reliable systems survive:

                            http://www.pcworld.com/article/23806...ll_street.html
                            "The release cycles with Solaris and AIX were very long -- two to three years between updates. Linux was able [to make the changes needed] within a month or so," Lameter said.
                            http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sourc...ell-linux/8285
                            http://www.redhat.com/about/news/arc...tock-exchanges
                            Last edited by Pawlerson; 03-25-2013, 07:17 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                              I'm not mistaken at all. Operating system and company who does things like this one can't be taken seriously:

                              http://blog.lastinfirstout.net/2010/...oss-still.html

                              Those "massive" SAP systems are jokes compared to HPC or SGI big irons. I hope you'll agree.
                              well in most cases yes, Some SAP systems are massive enough to put those as tiny laptops tho but they aren't the common case i agree.

                              about your link i agree is quite a failure but is true too this don't affect Sun/Oracle main targets since is very unlike you will ever hit in a proper certified datacenter. This mostly apply to so company with cheap datacenters that got a couple of server with oracle/solaris for some DB's.

                              For example i worked with Sun[at that time][not at sun but i as a client side analist and certificator] in 1999 in a datacenter that costed 15 million USD and the certification went from structure to software and i can say last time any of those servers were shutdown was in 2001 after a 90 hours power failure and they only restart for upgrades since then.[Oracle handles it now] and in all this years Oracle/SAP and solaris never failed once, the sparc servers have never failed either and the SAN[ish] that came with it [hitachi] in all this years only 1 disk died and ZFS[was close to solaris 11 release] recovered the raid like a champ without failing any service. This datacenter is expected to produce until 2015 <-- this is the common case for solaris and the same applies to AIX.

                              the point been in a properly certified Solaris/AIX system something like an abrupt shutdown is a non tolerable issue to start with and it implies a grave mistake was made in some part of the certification process or by a very bad sysadmin and the data corruption is mostly nil since those datacenters are heavily redundant and clustered which make very hard to trigger this kind of failure in a fatal fashion.

                              this kind of errors are less likely to happen in linux tho since its main target is not those uber datacenters and you can expect power failures and many other issues and the server has to recover properly everytime as long as is possible.

                              not saying you are wrong tho, i won't use solaris to mount an Oracle DB of importance if i have a small non certified datacenter with a couple of servers i would use hands down RHEL or Oracle Linux but for a N million dollar certified datacenter ill go with Solaris/AIX eyes closed without a shred of doubt, for HPC ill go linux hands down too

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
                                i won't use solaris to mount an Oracle DB of importance if i have a small non certified datacenter with a couple of servers i would use hands down RHEL or Oracle Linux but for a N million dollar certified datacenter ill go with Solaris/AIX eyes closed without a shred of doubt, for HPC ill go linux hands down too
                                The entire ZFS core team resigned months after Oracle killed Open Solaris, along with plenty of other Solaris engineers. They now work on Illumos at various companies (with the ZFS developers mostly Delphix). They have fixed plenty of bugs that were in the last release of Open Solaris. These bugs affect Oracle's Solaris, but Oracle cannot merge the fixes without releasing its source code. The resignation of so many of Oracle's engineers has also led to a situation where Oracle no longer has the engineering talent needed to continue development of many of Solaris' core innovations, which include ZFS and DTrace. With that in mind, you would be better off with OmniOS:

                                http://omnios.omniti.com/

                                It is an Illumos distribution with commercial support. In many ways, they are to Illumos what Redhat is to Linux.

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