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Miguel de Icaza Leaves Linux For Apple OS X

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  • #31
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    Cleaning up linux is a lot of work. Such ideas of mine would be to remove 3/4 of distros (the pointless ones like ubuntu christian edition, hannah montana linux, xandros, etc), remove every other modified firefox browser, kill off RPM, combine all the gnome 2 forks, and so on.
    Xandros has been dead for years, ubuntu christian edition it just ubuntu with custom default repository, it not part of any kind of fragmentation problem, other then been based on a canonical product.


    RPM is part of Linux standard base, congrats on not following the standardization documentation.


    There is only one gnome 2 fork, Mate. Cinnamon is gnome 3 fork, while Consort is a gnome 3 fallback fork. Mate will most likely be abandoned once wayland begin to replace X, for not enough developer to update the whole repository, cinnamon, lose relevance has customization feature get integrated in gnome 3 (not that it at a good customization state, but getting better at least). Consort still have to see if will worth it, but it does have better reason to exist, which is keeping the fallback mode, which is better if done correctly, has it permit gnome 3 compatibility while keeping gnome 2 paradigm.

    More the kind of person that can go for a simple windows manager (for a minimal interface) or kde (but for lack of time combined with OCD reason I never got time to fully dive into it, if actually fit), but don't care really, so mostly stick with what already there, has my workflow mostly involve the CLI, a web browser and lot of VM.

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    • #32
      Acceptible

      I've seen headings similar to these before. Ian Murdock, Bob Young, also mac users now.

      Nothing to see here folks, move along.

      Mac lost touch in the PC market... literally.

      For $500 you can get a touch-based Lapbook, boot ubuntu 12.10 and play Steam games.

      Drama queens the whole lot of them.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by stikonas View Post
        The desktop was not fragmented before he himself started the GNOME project as an alternative to KDE...
        Yeah. Because Qts license model based on CLA is as shady as Mark Shuttleworths mind. BTW I like the irony; KDE founder Matthias Ettrich has done the exacly same; Leaving Linux and went by the dark path of Nokia(MS).

        And Qt? After they went Blackberry crazy they are falling in love with... IOS.
        http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/0...r-ios-preview/

        Miguel=Matthias
        MONO=Qt.

        Lesson: Add CLA and thing WILL blow up.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ruinairas View Post
          Linux is fragmented....He is right.
          One man's fragmentation is another man's choice. It's not just fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation. If something exists and is in use, then obviously it's either not exactly equivalent to its alternatives or is superior to them (in which case no fragmentation occurs). Same thing in ecology, if you have two species that use the same resources and have the same needs, then either they actually don't, or the stronger of the two will destroy the other one, given a bit of time.

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          • #35
            Wonderful news! This stupid m$ troll should leave years ago, but it's good late than never. I just have two words to you, Icaza: get lost.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by asdx
              Good riddance.

              Finally this idiot went away, I hope he never returns.

              Stay where you are and don't come back. We don't need you.
              One thing he's not is an idiot. He's both an excellent coder and very charasmatic.
              You may not need him since he was no friend to KDE, but, again, he was great at building... communities, I guess. Gnome could sure use him if he could just layoff the MS teat.

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              • #37
                One of the best things I've heard in a while. Not sure why he wasn't just kicked off in the first place.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                  One man's fragmentation is another man's choice. It's not just fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation.
                  CLA is the prime reason for fragmentation. Look at MIR, mySQL, Unity, Upstart, Openoffice et al. Call em fragmentation or choice.. In reality they are just CLA shit and Linux could do without the drama.

                  Open source could be the better way of doing software; the best technical ideas win due to best software and least maintenance burden. Sure social dynamics like NIH had to be overcome, but thats low noise. CLA is the cancer here; It makes big business like Canonical go for clearly stupid shit because the gain CLA.

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                  • #39
                    Fragmentation pisses me off as well. Have a look at distrowatch at all those lonely, script kiddies creating distros...

                    But Mac doesn't run on my hardware and has way outdated graphics etc. drivers.

                    So, no my main os will remain Ubuntu, while rebooting others for recompiling stuff.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                      One man's fragmentation is another man's choice. It's not just fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation. If something exists and is in use, then obviously it's either not exactly equivalent to its alternatives or is superior to them (in which case no fragmentation occurs). Same thing in ecology, if you have two species that use the same resources and have the same needs, then either they actually don't, or the stronger of the two will destroy the other one, given a bit of time.
                      But you lost that much time for developing that [fragmantation]. When u focuses on just one, then you can combine the best from these many fork into one. It's good we have choice, but if you have to much choice, then..

                      I'm with Smitchbag & Siride on this.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        "#fragmentation - lame excuse by people who just want to hate on having choice."
                        +1 great definition!

                        Should be put in every dictionary on the planet.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by squirrl View Post
                          I've seen headings similar to these before. Ian Murdock, Bob Young, also mac users now.

                          Nothing to see here folks, move along.

                          Mac lost touch in the PC market... literally.

                          For $500 you can get a touch-based Lapbook, boot ubuntu 12.10 and play Steam games.

                          Drama queens the whole lot of them.

                          I think these events hadn't nothing to do with price of Apple computers or Steam for Linux. Switching between Unix and Linux is easy for everyone who know now something about Unix Teminal, Kernel etc. Apple is the biggest competitor for Linux, because these two operating systems are very similar.

                          This is a simple example:

                          "A while ago you tried to get Linux to include something like Apple's Universal Binary in FatELF. Some reacted very negatively to it and it wasn't merged. Has that changed how you approach patches to Linux? Did it effect your recent proposal to Gnome for improved fullscreen support on X?
                          The thing about FatELF is that I was completely blindsided by the reaction I got to it. It's not a big change in the first place, and didn't disrupt existing systems at all, but added an interesting piece of functionality for almost zero cost. I was well-researched on the topic, built a lot of it upfront, and even had a whole proof-of-concept virtual machine ready to download. I didn't want to look like a n00b when I showed up to make my pitch, because it's the Linux kernel, and this is the Big League.

                          But man, I encountered some hostility. It was weird, it was like being in junior high school again and getting picked on by the cool kids in the lunch room.

                          Maybe I'm just sore about it; people can judge for themselves from the mailing list archives.

                          I have a whole list of things, like FatELF, that I'd like to build someday. Make the Linux system better in various ways. FatELF just seemed like a good place to start. But I walked away from that failure thinking, "why would I want to cooperate with these people?" I considered moving to Mac OS X full time. Eventually I calmed down and adjusted my list to prioritize things that didn't need patches to other projects.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by t.s. View Post
                            But you lost that much time for developing that [fragmantation]. When u focuses on just one, then you can combine the best from these many fork into one. It's good we have choice, but if you have to much choice, then..

                            I'm with Smitchbag & Siride on this.
                            Nobody loses time for it. If they felt they had the need to create something new, then obviously they must have had some important reasons why they did not want to co-operate with the competitors. Because co-operation is easier. But most often the views of different projects do not coincide. In the end the projects get more and more different, allowing for more freedom of choice. And, since it's open-source, both parties are free to look at what the others are doing. With forks it's even better, because the forking side saves even more time, as their foundation is already there, and they can be merged back upstream if needed.

                            All the different distributions are created either to fulfil some specific objective, or just for fun. In both cases the creators probably do not expect much public interest in their work. They just want to see the results of their work.

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                            • #44
                              So Mr Know-it-alls, have you ever coded for an opensource project? Because if you did, you would know that so called fragmentation isn't a split of programming resources, for the sole reason that developers code for the project they like, and if only one remains, it is not guaranteed that they will work on it. But of course you know better so "fragmentation" is bad etc etc...

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                              • #45
                                I'm sure he means well, and that it's nothing personal against free software- perhaps with the current state of affairs among Linux distributions, though. We shouldn't discount that Miguel laid the groundwork for many past successes that we take for granted. I hope he can find his way with his C# endeavors, and that he will meet our community again when things are a bit different. Linux isn't going away- let's just hope it isn't going rotten, either.

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