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When'll AMD Opensource Drivers be feature-complete for Evergreen chips

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  • #16
    @Figueiredo:
    I have noticed vector of your criticism even in previous post and I agree with you completely.
    However, Mr. Bridgeman claimed they spent $ 1.5 mio already in response to my post, so these are the results for this money... :/
    Also, they refused to support opensource officially. By that I mean everything from box art to primary site integration.

    They play the marketshare-"hide'n'seek" game, just like Mozilla does with WebP, clearly understanding that reaping big crops begins with plentiful seeding, not vice versa.
    They even denied to gather statistic or do public poll, meaning they are not interested in Linux - at most only in "supportive role", "as it needs". This is non-comparable to, say, Google... Say, maybe it would be awesome if Google buys AMD... at least the chances for getting quality drivers will be flattened for every OS they support
    Still... the job that is done in opensource, meaning it will not disappear or die in corporate cases.

    This is why I still support them and every developer who contributes.

    Intel - in my opinion, damaged its position significantly, by designing UEFI and supporting Secure Boot - both in a way that could damage/without clear path for non-microsoft OSes.
    Before that happened, I was choiceless behind Intel. For systems I buy they are still an option, but.. that option has lost its "monopoly".

    Also, Intel CEO(?) somewhere claimed they will never step into GPU performance market...
    Last edited by crazycheese; 01-16-2013, 03:01 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
      I aways thought that would be the case, and still do, but everyday, the state of radeonsi convinces me a little bit more otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I thank mesa/gallium devs (the people) everyday for their work, but the lack of commitment from everyone (the companies) except for intel to the oss infrastructure is astounding. Sadly intel is not yet a GPU behemont, so their work goes somewhat unoticed.
      Again I can't help but disagree with you. Intels one and only goal with their graphics drivers are to provide somewhat useable support. I mean they still arent going to gallium and have no plans to do so. Using their drivers requires a different configuration than everything else. They are moving more and more out of sync with the rest of the community everyday. They have done very little to improve the state of the graphics stack .

      The bottom line is that Intel doesnt care about linux. As long as their hardware is somewhat functional. They have gone out of their way to do as little as possible.

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      • #18
        Thanks Bridgman for such nice explanation.

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        • #19
          Ok. There's no denying that:

          #1 AMD is contributing towards OSS and specially Mesa
          #2 AMD developers are putting their best efforts towards making its graphics chips the best candidates on Linux platform
          #3 There has been much progress in OSS Radeon drivers

          Having said that, I'd add that this much is not enough. AMD still loses in every possible ground (here it may be out of context).

          #1 Intel releases garbage graphics chips, but they work better on Linux. Many times a low class intel GPU works better than a high class radeon GPU.
          #2 Well, we'll hang on for some time and use proprietary catalyst. But then the catalyst implementation is not good or hasslefree (nVidia has at least great implementation of its proprietary graphics, it might be out of context here).

          I've high regard for AMD graphics chips and the devs. I'm so happy when hd 6310 (its still a cheap e-350 gpu) runs on win7 in my 2nd boot, but the same is so poor and messy on prime linux boot (both catalyst and oss radeon). The crux of the matter at present is - AMD is not a compelling proposition on Linux despite its honest (though meager) contribution towards opensource radeon.

          Of course, I'll wait for the day when it really matures.
          Last edited by manmath; 01-16-2013, 10:04 PM. Reason: typo

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          • #20
            Originally posted by manmath View Post
            I'm so happy when hd 6310 (its still a cheap e-350 gpu) runs on win7 in my 2nd boot, but the same is so poor and messy on prime linux boot (both catalyst and oss radeon).
            Can you be a bit more specific about the "so poor and messy" issues you're seeing with the radeon driver ? Other than immature power management (which IIRC on your hardware will result in low GPU clocks) what other problems are you having ?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              Can you be a bit more specific about the "so poor and messy" issues you're seeing with the radeon driver?
              Thanks Bridgman if you can suggest me some workarounds. Here are the poor and messy part of radeon oss on my e-350 apu (hp dm1z, kubuntu 12.10).

              Poor: HD video playing sucks on oss radeon/linux - on win7/catalyst it's multifold better. I can say the performance is comparable to the Intel IGPs before Sandy Bridge - somewhat like g45 and g41 chips.
              Messy: Occasionally I can't connect it with my HDMI. Even when I change/share screens from "1366x768" (my laptop res.) it's not seamless, whereas win7/catalyst manages quite well, adapts as per the display in question.

              Is it just me? Or others are having such problems?

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              • #22
                HD video performance is known - the open source drivers do not have GPU-based video decoding, so this is being done on the CPU, which likely isn't up to the task.

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                • #23
                  One feature I've never seen mentioned anywhere is support for 3D displays. Nothern Islands cards are supposed to support them on Windows over HDMI, but I've never seen any report of that working or not working on Linux, neither with fglrx nor with r600g. Am I missing something?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Quite the opposite, in fact -- WIP usually means Work *is* In Progress
                    When you're sitting at a computer all day, you get used to seeing progress bars. Maybe instead of WIP, we can add those circular loading animations that never end.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by renkin View Post
                      When you're sitting at a computer all day, you get used to seeing progress bars. Maybe instead of WIP, we can add those circular loading animations that never end.
                      We could use [===]
                      [=--] - WIP, work started
                      [==-] - WIP, code present, untested
                      [===] - WIP, code present, beta

                      If you want more detailed progress bars..

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                        We could use [===]
                        [=--] - WIP, work started
                        [==-] - WIP, code present, untested
                        [===] - WIP, code present, beta
                        I give it a few weeks before we also get:

                        [-=-] - WIP, untested and not sure if I started in the right way
                        [-==] - WIP, beta, but probably needs a rewrite
                        [--=] - WIP, I found this code and it seems to work, but I don't know why or how
                        [==|] - WIP, basically works, but I've hit a roadblock
                        [==/] - WIP, I think I see a way around the roadblock

                        :-)

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                          Again I can't help but disagree with you. Intels one and only goal with their graphics drivers are to provide somewhat useable support. I mean they still arent going to gallium and have no plans to do so. Using their drivers requires a different configuration than everything else. They are moving more and more out of sync with the rest of the community everyday. They have done very little to improve the state of the graphics stack .

                          The bottom line is that Intel doesnt care about linux. As long as their hardware is somewhat functional. They have gone out of their way to do as little as possible.
                          Do you hosnestly expect a "for profit" company to help out its competitors? Intel's drivers strategy seems spot on for me. I would probably do the same if I were in their position. The code is already out there, if you want to reimplement it on gallium, go on. radeon and noveau already benefit greatly from their work, there is no reason for intel to help out even more.

                          There is something we have to understand regarding oss/linux. We cannot expect for profit companies to write open and free software and compete with microsoft for no profit at all. Unfortunatelly, no one has yet come up with a business model that makes desktop linux economically viable. Canonical operates at a loss. To me, Valve seems to be the one closest to actually acomplishing that. They are also the ones who will most benefit from a top notch linux graphics stack, since it will mean more sales on the steambox. If they feel that porting intel's driver to gallium would benefit them, they would be free to do that.

                          In my mind, there would certainly be benefits for valve if the 3 drivers were all oss and feature complete, since they could have more control over the platform their clients develop for. But they would have to consider the time and cost involved, which we can only estimate...

                          In a nutshell, i believe intel is more forward looking, not the great linux messiah. AMD almost ignores linux, and I suppose we can agree that such position will bite them in the ass in the sometime in the future.

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                          • #28
                            * Hybrid Graphics - lots of work on this over the last year, mostly by airlied

                            I observe that things had been working less and less
                            smoothly as the kernel version had been progressing from 3.4 to 3.7. The version 3.8.rc3 now fails to switch to
                            ati card and start Xorg


                            I have problem to use ati card on my muxless hybrid graphics laptop.
                            This is hp envy-1210nr laptop with ATI/Intel cards
                            fglrx is unusable for my laptop SHAME to AMD and HP (http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=276)!
                            I used to use vga_switcheroo to switch off ati card and to switch it on when I need to suspend/hibernate or to use the
                            display and hdmi ports for presentation. Note that for 3.4 and 3.5 versions of kernel
                            there was a nice patch that allowed the comfortable use of the vga_switcheroo
                            (http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/p...207270831.html)
                            Unfortunately kernel hackers rejected it. So in the kernel version 3.6 I had to start the vga_switcheroo related scripts manually.
                            It was not as comfortable as earlier, however it did work from the odinary user. For the kernel 3.7 the situation was changed,
                            so I have to use sudo everytime to suspend/hibernate. Finally, 3.8.rc3 has possibility to switch on/off the power for the AMD card but
                            no possibility to start Xorg on it (https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8718).

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
                              AMD almost ignores linux, and I suppose we can agree that such position will bite them in the ass in the sometime in the future.
                              I believe AMD invests more in Linux relative to the size of the company than Intel does.

                              What "position" you are talking about -- being smaller ?
                              Last edited by bridgman; 01-17-2013, 10:12 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by manmath View Post
                                Messy: Occasionally I can't connect it with my HDMI. Even when I change/share screens from "1366x768" (my laptop res.) it's not seamless, whereas win7/catalyst manages quite well, adapts as per the display in question.
                                What does this mean? Comes up in a mode you don't like? dualhead vs. clone? something else? The driver just generates an event when a monitor is plugged or unplugged. It's up to your desktop environment to decide what to do with that event.

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