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  • #21
    I use Linux as my desktop operating system, not as an enterprise system and definitely not as a server, and I have seen bugger all that Canonical has done on my setup. Now, I do use Fedora and not Ubuntu, but if you are on Ubuntu and do not see something from Red Hat you are being deliberately blind. About the only thing I can find from Canonical on my system is Simple Scan, and I prefer to use xsane anyway. Now, I do admit that this is besides the point; I am not here to bash Ubuntu, but rather to point out that Canonical is not the only game in town when it come's to the desktop.

    Your Red Hat website comparison is also not very apt, as Fedora is their desktop effort. If you compare the Fedora website to Ubuntu's you will see that they are very much targeting the same audience. Red Hat decided that their desktop variety would best be solved by handling it in a community fashion; they never abandoned it as some people claim. Fedora has been on the forefront of the Linux desktop just as much as Ubuntu has. It is of course true that Red Hat earns most of their income through the Enterprise and Server markets, but that does not mean they do not contribute to the desktop (as an aside, at this point one has to wonder where Canonical is getting any of their income).

    Keep in mind that Gnome is largely developed by Red Hat employees (which Canonical depends upon for Unity), and their developers are largely the ones that make the Linux desktop work. Just the fact that Lennart Poettering is employed by Red Hat shows that they care about the Linux desktop; like his contributions or not, he has always worked to try and make the Linux desktop "just work". PulseAudio was not created for Servers or the Enterprise. It was created for the wider desktop in general.

    Most of your examples are purely marketing, and yes that can be important, but to praise Canonical and then say Red Hat never targets "regular desktop users" just because they are not hyping themselves to them seems very shallow and superficial. Like it or not, in recent times Red Hat has been the ones innovating the Linux desktop technically, and most of the other distros are following their example in some way or another. And through Fedora they have been trying to reach the desktop market.

    And, well, I guess the One Laptop per Child does count as marketing. So they even have done some of that.

    Again, I am not necessarily casting off Canonical's role. I just want you to stop casting of Red Hat's.
    Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 10-11-2012, 01:39 AM.

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    • #22
      Also, a few more points:

      Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
      Canonical has done user feedback testing where they actually went outside, sat average Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X users in front of an Ubuntu PC and collected feedback and changed the graphical user interface based on this feedback. When has Red Hat ever been so concerned about the non-Linux regular desktop user's experience using their software? Never.
      By supporting exisiting projects like Gnome they have probably helped similar events happen. I know for a fact that they did do similar usability feedback tests when building Gnome 3. Again, you can argue about the creation that spawned from them, but the same applies just as much or even more to Unity. This is just an example of Red Hat being much more willing to play with others, rather than merely trying to forge their own path all the time, like Ubuntu does.

      Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
      Canonical had a netbook remix that was directly targeted towards Netbook/Laptop users. What has Red Hat released that was directly targeted toward Netbooks?
      Well, the only Linux netbooks I saw being sold were running Linpus, which is a Fedora deriviative, but I do admit that argument is a bit superficial. Still, they did not really reach the mainstream.

      Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
      Canonical is trying hard to get Ubuntu / Unity shipping on Tablets. What is Red Hat doing to get Red Hat Linux shipped on tablets? Nothing.
      And now you are going besides the point - how would Ubuntu be any different than Android? Completly different ballpark and one that certainly has nothing to do with the Linux desktop.

      This is just more of an example of Canonical desperately trying to find another, more stable revenue stream. Frankly I could not care less whether my phone bears the Ubuntu logo or the Android logo. The product would be much the same.

      Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
      Canonical created a marketplace where regular desktop users can purchase commercial games and software from. Again, creating solutions for desktop users rather than just bundling all needed server software with the OS and not caring about a marketplace, like Red Hat does. Servers don't need a marketplace so of course Red Hat doesn't care because only regular Desktop users need that.
      Well, Red Hat and the Fedora project in general has been disscusing the concept of a Software Centre. But to say that Fedora, WHICH IS THE RED HAT DESKTOP, does not bundle anything but server software is once again laughable. And again, Red Hat is trying to work with other vendors for a solution, rather than trying to forge a path on their own.

      I personally much prefer to get my commercial software through third party services anyway, such as Desura or Steam (although I have other concerns regarding steam), but once again I am going besides the point.

      Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
      Just my 2 cents. If Red Hat really was targeting regular Desktop Users, the Linux Desktop user marketshare would be a lot higher than it is. In my opinion.
      And Canonical has been actively targeting them for the past eight years and we still have yet to have a breakthrough. This takes a lot more effort and even sheer dumb luck than you imply. A lot of things have to fall into place. Red Hat has been playing their part - you just fail to see it.
      Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 10-11-2012, 01:58 AM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        I draw a distinct difference between a Server Desktop and a regular user Desktop. Red Hat focuses on the Server Desktop, because they need to compete against Windows Server.
        Lie.

        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Canonical has done orders of magnitude more for Desktop Linux than Red Hat ever has.
        Lie.


        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Canonical had a netbook remix that was directly targeted towards Netbook/Laptop users. What has Red Hat released that was directly targeted toward Netbooks?
        Netbooks are not desktops but anyways: Red Hat did and does GNOME Shell.

        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Canonical has done user feedback testing where they actually went outside, sat average Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X users in front of an Ubuntu PC and collected feedback and changed the graphical user interface based on this feedback. When has Red Hat ever been so concerned about the non-Linux regular desktop user's experience using their software? Never.
        Lie.
        http://www.core77.com/blog/articles/...gner_23301.asp


        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Canonical is trying hard to get Ubuntu / Unity shipping on Tablets. What is Red Hat doing to get Red Hat Linux shipped on tablets? Nothing.
        Lie. GNOME Shell.

        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Red Hat is focused on training IT Professionals to use their software. Canonical is focusing on getting all Desktop users to use their software. How is Red Hat marketing their software to regular Desktop Windows users or regular Desktop Mac OS X users? Just go to the Ubuntu webpage and see how all the wording there is specifically targeting Desktop users. Go to Red Hat's webpage and see how it's full of IT jargon. See the difference now? Which company is targeting only IT Professionals and which company is *really* targeting the Linux Desktop?
        Red Hatís consumer Linux is Fedora: https://fedoraproject.org/

        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Canonical created a marketplace where regular desktop users can purchase commercial games and software from.
        Lie.
        Canonical didn't invent Humble Bundle.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
          Red Hat did and does GNOME Shell.
          Well, to an extent. Red Hat employs many of the Gnome developers and offers them support, but it is not a Red Hat project. As I said, Red Hat has a tendency to cooperate with others more than forge their own path.

          I did not even know that Ms/Mrs Duffy was employed by Red Hat, just that she worked on Fedora. Good find.

          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
          Lie. Canonical didn't invent Humble Bundle.
          Well, I did get a laugh out of this one.
          Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 10-11-2012, 12:47 PM.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
            Canonical created UbuntuOne and their Music Store, again, directly targeting Desktop linux users. Where is Red Hat's Music Store and Cloud Storage service? I sure haven't seen it.
            UbuntuOne is proprietary i.e. nobody can access to the source and modify under free and open source license.
            Music Store? What about Jamendo, Freesound, Magnatune under Rhythmbox (soon to be superseded by a new music application)?
            Cloud service? http://ca.redhat.com/consulting/cloud/

            Sure, Red Hat has made contributions to having a decent graphical user interface for a server. But really, that doesn't have much to do with Linux on the Desktop as opposed to Linux on the Server. If they fix a problem on the Server Desktop that also impacts the regular User Desktop, then of course, I suppose that's a contribution to User Desktop. However, they're not really focused on the User Desktop and it's more of a bi-product rather than a serious goal of Red Hat.
            Read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Ha...s#Free_Desktop
            Fedora is a consumer desktop.

            Just my 2 cents. If Red Hat really was targeting regular Desktop Users, the Linux Desktop user marketshare would be a lot higher than it is. In my opinion.
            Canonical still has not made a profit in consumer desktop market i.e. that section is not viable at all due to Microsoft who still dominate and successfully use FUD to delay Linux distribution grow. The donation only exposed Canonical financial struggle and their dependence to Mark Shuttleworth.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by finalzone View Post
              Another nice find, thanks. Doing all my work for me.

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