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Nokia Slams Office Working On Qt Components

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  • #16
    Micro$hit wants to kill Qt and promote M$ mono. Boycott that crap.

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    • #17
      Re

      People are just very dumb or they are just uninformed. Another thing could be that they hate Qt and KDE.

      No, they can't sell Qt. It's under Open Governance, rights are assigned to a lot of non-Nokia developers. They could change the license but they would need the approval of a few hundred developers. That won't happen, I assure you.
      "It's the death of Qt and KDE!" - that's so dumb. Until now all the developers that were fired by Nokia were employed by other companies to work further on Qt.
      Also, open governance improved the speed of development. So, no, this layoffs won't affect anything. Qt still is the best cross-platform application framework and it will continue to be...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by drag View Post
        Control of "licensing benefits" (which is a terrible way to say 'copyrights') is completely and utterly irrelevant at this point.

        The reason it's irrelevant is because any work done to QT at this point is going to be a derivative of existing QT code. Existing QT code can only be obtained, as open source, under the LGPL license. Therefore any QT development outside of Nokia can only ever be LGPL.
        First: Nokia is demanding licensing benefits not copyright.
        Second: Qt is not open sourced under LGPL exclusively.
        Third: Nokia can relicense to another open source license or commercial license.

        Frankly they can do what they want because of the CLA. This seems like a great licensing benefit to me.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
          Third: Nokia can relicense to another open source license or commercial license.
          They can add as many additional licenses as they want. They can relicense Qt under a more permissive open-source license like BSD. But they [b]cannot[/b remove the open-source license.

          In practical terms there are only two ways things can fundamentally change right now:
          1. they remove the closed-source license entirely
          2. they remove the LGPL and GPL licenses and relicense under a more permissive open-source license like BSD, MIT, or MPL.

          They could remove the GPL version, but this doesn't have much of a practical effect since any user of the GPL license could use it under LGPL instead (I think, IANAL). The commercial license can change somewhat in the details, but that really wouldn't have a huge impact. Or they could try removing the LGPL and GPL, which would have the same effect as 2 because of their deal with the KDE e.v. So these are the only major changes that would be possible.

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          • #20
            Nokia bleeding money, burning bridges and turning into a(nother) chinese company. Nothing to see here, move along.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by drag View Post
              QT is not a threat and never will be a threat because writing 'cross platform software' is crap no matter how many layers of abstraction you throw at it and KDE will never take the steps necessary to be a mainstream desktop OS that could ever possibly threaten Microsoft.
              Like VLC, Google Chrome, Firefox... all crap
              Personally I've developed a few commercial Qt applications for Linux. And when a Windows version was requested... recompile and it is done!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by talvik View Post
                Like VLC, Google Chrome, Firefox... all crap
                Personally I've developed a few commercial Qt applications for Linux. And when a Windows version was requested... recompile and it is done!
                You're just a developer. Trolls know better.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Alliancemd View Post
                  They could change the license but they would need the approval of a few hundred developers. That won't happen, I assure you.
                  You have no clue. Every Qt contributor must sign an agreement to hand over all licensing rights to Nokia. Nokia can change Qt's license at any time. That's why Nokia and Digia can sell closed source versions.
                  Worst part: Qt's FOSS license is LGPLv2 only, without the “or any later version” clause which makes forks inflexible.

                  Qt’s “open governance” is actually not open. If it really was, the community could decide on the licensing terms on its own.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                    You have no clue. Every Qt contributor must sign an agreement to hand over all licensing rights to Nokia. Nokia can change Qt's license at any time.
                    First, they don't "hand over" anything. They grant Nokia a non-exclusive license, which means they can also license it to anyone else they please under any license they please.

                    Second, Nokia can only change the license within the existing agreement, which says that if they remove the open-source license, or don't release open-source versions at least once every 12 months, the license automatically changes to BSD.

                    So let me ask you: since they cannot take Qt solely closed-source, can't stop development of Qt without it becoming BSD-licensed, and can't make the current open-source license more restrictive, what could they do that would be so bad for the open-source community?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                      You're just a developer. Trolls know better.
                      You think drag is a troll? You must be new.
                      Drag's point was accurate. MS simply doesn't care about Qt. It isn't a concern b/c they don't care about xdesktop development beyond what they get .NET. As far as Qt and MS are concerned, there never was a conspiracy. Qt was simply a flea squished by titans shaking hands.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                        Qt’s “open governance” is actually not open. If it really was, the community could decide on the licensing terms on its own.
                        LGPL is not good enough for Qt. Where does this put Qt?

                        Ive heard Nokia Marketing vetoed a few other nice catchy buzz lines.

                        "Qt CLAing macht frei" and "Here is to a another 15 years of comprosing freedom" were voted down. I dont get it.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by liam View Post
                          You think drag is a troll? You must be new.
                          Drag's point was accurate. MS simply doesn't care about Qt. It isn't a concern b/c they don't care about xdesktop development beyond what they get .NET. As far as Qt and MS are concerned, there never was a conspiracy. Qt was simply a flea squished by titans shaking hands.
                          But this is not about Microsoft at all. It's about Nokia bleeding money and cannibalizing itself in an effort to survive. Bringing irrelevant aspects into this thread equals trolling imho.
                          Seriously, Nokia just closed its factory in Finland, who would expect them to keep pouring money into Qt? Especially since they're not using it anymore.

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                          • #28
                            Qt is in high demand right now with no direct competition. Many companies are heavily invested in Qt. It's not "going to die".

                            The australian guys will get new jobs, Qt will march on, so will KDE.

                            Because of the Qt Projects open governance and the KDE Qt agreement there is not much anyone could do to sabotage.

                            Bad luck for the Brisbane guys but like I said, they will find new work.

                            These guys aren't stupid and most probably saw it coming. My guess is that they are well prepared to transition to something new. It was the same with the people who now make up Jolla.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ariendj View Post
                              The australian guys will get new jobs,
                              Case in point: "C. Bergström shared that PathScale is hiring."

                              I hope that when I lose my job people come to me, offering me work, proactively, too.

                              Too bad I don't work on Qt and it's not going to happen

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                                But this is not about Microsoft at all. It's about Nokia bleeding money and cannibalizing itself in an effort to survive. Bringing irrelevant aspects into this thread equals trolling imho.
                                Seriously, Nokia just closed its factory in Finland, who would expect them to keep pouring money into Qt? Especially since they're not using it anymore.
                                The logic that you're missing is the REASON that Nokia is bleeding... which is MS.

                                They got a bit too enthusiastic when MS offered them up a pile of cash to put all their eggs into the MS meat-grinder-disguised-as-a-basket, and its KILLING them. Now to stop the bleeding, they're cutting off their SECOND testicle, guaranteeing permanent impotence.

                                Not long ago, they said that they had a secret plan B.... the general theory was that it would be dropping MS and going with Android. Unfortunately, their only way to remain RELEVANT is to have something that DISTINGUISHES them. If they switched to Android when Android was NEW, they could be bigger than Samsung right now. That, by itself, would be enough to distinguish them. Now their ONLY prayer is to offer something unique. Dropping the last bit of Qt is definitely the wrong approach.

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