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Microsoft is trying to replace Linux-based government OS in Russia

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  • #31
    Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
    1.) well keeping that my daily job is very tight to information security i disagree here, sure all OS are hackeable but windows server 2003/2008r2 never took me more than 5m googling and 5 minutes hacking[Legally under contract] it to the bones[ppl get impressed when im in a rdp session making hell in servers and admins can't even see the processes running and their uber CA security/UAC/etc doing nothing except asking to open a word file LOL].
    1a.) Mac OS X out of the box is lot harder to hack but still somehow easy[maybe 1h ] but at the end of the day Mac is BSD and when you harden the OS[you can google some guides] it become quite difficult to hack[Apple just make it insecure but the OS can be very sturdy but it affect the easy of use]
    1b.) Linux/FreeBSD/etc are hellish to hack specially if you do things right, sometimes it took me weeks sometimes i give up but to hack linux you need to get extremely creative
    1c.) OpenBSD true nightmare hellish level to hack, if i see an OpenBSD server and the root password is not "123456" i just label it as secure and save me a couple of months of pain[ofc can be hacked eventually im not saying is perfect but god damn is hard]

    so concluding yes everything that has internet has a chance of getting hacked but there are vastly differences and is very short sight to assume all are equally insecure and when you work with security[the whole package not just the OS] you need to set levels cuz you have levels of hackers and level of interest for hackers, for example[this is from my own experience]:
    level 1 - 3 Soho/small bussiness.) main OS windows SBS -- change to hack 9/10 -- hacker type 1-4[kiddos proving they are cool/ex-employees/spammers/etc] -- in this level you won't find a hacker able to break linux or OpenBSD
    level 4 - 6 medium size bussiness.) main OS windows SBS -- change to hack 8/10 -- hacker type 1-7[kiddos proving they are cool/ex-employees/spammers/low profile industrial spionage] -- in this level is veru unlickely find a hacker able to break linux or OpenBSD
    level 7-10 bank/gov/big corporation.) main OS Unixes/windows -- chance to hack 1/10 -- hacker type 7-10[higly skilled proffesional hacker/high profile industrial espionage] --in this level you will find hackers spending months/years try to hack their way regardless the OS cuz the reward is big enough for the effort in previous cases is very unlikely unless you piss off the guy and he make his life goal to screw yours[Gene simmons anyone??].

    2.) ok sure but what are you using?? cuz like i said i never in ten years suffer from this at userspace level and i like i said using many different distros, so it call my curiosity what the F is causing that unless you have a propietary application compiled a decade ago to run on RHEL, in that case it could be but using FOSS software i can't believe it

    There is no realy monetary gain in hacking linux, "outside of bank systems etc"and the only reason most avoid it, is becuase theres no particular version to hack. The diversity makes it secure, not the code itself. I'd lay odds that the linux OS ecosystem code base is a far clunkier mess of shit then most any closed source system.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by russofris View Post
      Wait... Competition is healthy for "everyone" except the ones duking it out. I'm not sure if you meant it as you stated, or were having a senior moment.

      F
      you do understand the anti-competitive nature of duoplys correct ?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
        There is no realy monetary gain in hacking linux
        How about all those companies seeking Linux programmers/hackers/admins/specialists ??!

        Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
        , "outside of bank systems etc"and the only reason most avoid it, is becuase theres no particular version to hack.
        Linux components are just so random, there is no releases, no 2-4 softwares per specific role but 255 , no major distros with LTS, etc.
        YEAH!

        Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
        The diversity makes it secure, not the code itself. I'd lay odds that the linux OS ecosystem code base is a far clunkier mess of shit then most any closed source system.
        Linux codebase was proven to be one of the tidiest EVER, unlike that of microsoft containing HACK over HACK!!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
          Your trolling yourselves, by refusing to hold yourselves as a group accountable for your shitty behavior and your lack of concern for software quality. Don't blame the messenger.
          Messenger of what? You haven't been able to point out one specific fact that backs your bullshit statements. You obviously don't know anything about Linux as is evident by your comments, yet you feel you have to troll sites like this and spread you lies about a operating system you are obviously not using.

          Man, you must lead such a sad life.

          Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
          I'd lay odds that the linux OS ecosystem code base is a far clunkier mess of shit then most any closed source system.
          Hah, coming from a guy who doesn't even know how to code? Now I would not pass any judgement on the code quality of closed systems as I've had no chance to examine it, however I've seen nothing indicating it would be of any less quality than that of 'proprietary systems'. Given how Linux is totally dominating in hpc / supercomputers, used heavily in stock markets, military, industrial settings, embedded, servers then I'd say it having great code quality is a given. But please, if you can point to any code in the Linux kernel tree which is of poor code quality, please do so.

          Just came upon this link today, describing the use of Linux at CERN, http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/07/l...discovery.html

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
            you do understand the anti-competitive nature of duoplys correct ?
            They are not anti-competitive by nature. They are quite the opposite. It is only when they commit an anti-competitive act (price fixing for example) that they can be viewed as anti-competitive. I doubt that Apple and Google are engaged in such behavior, and present MS's Android patent licensing as a counter argument. The competition is so intense that MS is attempting to inflate the cost of it's competitors' products.

            I agree that it's a strange game, and I'd be terrified if I were forced to play.

            F

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
              There is no realy monetary gain in hacking linux, "outside of bank systems etc"and the only reason most avoid it, is becuase theres no particular version to hack. The diversity makes it secure, not the code itself. I'd lay odds that the linux OS ecosystem code base is a far clunkier mess of shit then most any closed source system.
              I agree. If you wanted monetary gain, the linux kernel is usually a bad place to start. Typically one would start by working on the foundation technologies of the target. Financial institutions typically use a SSL front end, a java middleware tier, and an atomic (Oracle) backend. It would be far more productive to target these implementations than the linux kernel. Heck, it would be far more productive to look for some weak perimeter device than it would be to go after the core technologies, depending on the breadth and purpose of the attack. Why waste time and effort hacking when a mortgage broker's password is "Hello01"?

              F

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              • #37
                Some truly childish sentiment...

                First, let me start off by saying that, through your lack of presentable facts and hastened, disorganized conclusions, I can reasonably say that it seems apparent as if I am conversing with a child on this subject matter. The absurdity of your conclusions and the audacity of your arguments, substantiated by nothing more than mere propagandistic and uncertain theories, continually portray a sentiment based on little knowledge or foresight, and were this analytical approach taken to political discussion, I assure you that you would most likely be labeled as a conspiracy theorist.

                Perhaps you'd benefit from understanding the difference between an assumption and a fact. Nevertheless, I guess I'll still be taking my time to respond to your ridiculous rantings...

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Nokia? Enough?
                Actually, no; that's not quite enough. Microsoft and Nokia both agreed to a mutual business partnership. That's a corporation-to-corporation pact, and is in no way related to what you're asserting as a corporation-to-government bribery. In addition, just simply pointing to an unrelated event such as the agreement between Microsoft and Nokia, and then using that to justify your position here (in which Microsoft has "bribed" the Russian government) is, once again, making assumptions. I repeat, you have failed thus far to provide me with any source of Microsoft's financial, corporate, or social involvement with the Russian government, whatsoever. It's highly unnecessary to reference to extraneous occurrences, unless you have the intended purpose of directing attention away from the flaws in your premises.


                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Point 1) minister of communication is to vote FOR MS-based solution AND against already in-development Linux based OS
                Okay, and just because he's for Microsoft and against a specific Linux distribution, that makes him "corrupt?" I don't care if it's already in development. Have you considered his possible considerations on the detriments to Linux (I'd not care to hear you respond telling me that there are none whatsoever; you're living in a dreamland if you think Linux has no issues)? What makes you think you know so much about the Russian government's specific situation here? Is every government official who chooses something by Microsoft over a Linux solution considered an effect of "bribery" and "corruption," simply because they made a decision you were unhappy about? Are you unaware of the possibility of the solution presented by Microsoft, for their specific scenario, being better than whatever Linux solution they had originally? Until you bring further information about this, your claims are all part of a series of overreaching speculation.

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Point 2)
                Okay. Besides the fact that you've now lost track of the argument at hand here, in pertinence to how your source shows bribery on the part of Microsoft and not about the popularity of Windows, I'll humor with a response.
                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                second minister has SIGNED RESIGNATION IF Linux-based government OS program will be closed. MS-W is already used in Russian government FOR AGES, and is hated due to being insecure. They had the source code delivered to them and that didnīt help much!
                Once again, another baseless claim. I question how you're so "knowledgable" about what the Russian government's opinion is on Windows. Do you work for them?

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Point 3) how often do you see ministers threating with resignment just for fun?
                So, I take it that if a minister isn't resigning in protest to corruption, the only other possibility must be "for fun." -__-
                For your sake, I hope you adopt a more broad perspective in your outlook on politics. It's highly probably that the minister simply resigned in protest to only the adoption of a Microsoft solution over a Linux one, on a technologically-ideological basis (and not a belief in corruption). In fact, if you reread part of the article...
                Originally posted by Original Article Source
                "Global Agreement with vendors for state agencies - a quick victory, which came to nothing lead. Now Russia - one of the few countries in the world that can make their own operating systems. And the conclusion of contracts with foreign companies puts an end to the domestic industry, as giants such as Google and Microsoft, are not interested in the development of Russian programmers "- explained Massukh.
                ...you can see that he's more concerned about the ability for Russian programmers to benefit from a Russian-made operating system. It doesn't seem like he's concerned with the fact that it's just something by Microsoft, and he even lumps Google and other "tech giants" in there, too.

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                If you want to call deputy personally, you can easily FIND his number on internet and ask him away!
                Let's not be unreasonable. Saying that a source is easy to find is a worthless statement. I've yet to see you provide one on your own.

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                You have 1+2+3 as proof, you also have fact that choosing MS over already-in-development Linux-based solution will mean closure for the later.
                What do you want more?
                Again, I've defined here what it means to have baseless claims. You have yet to provide me with a source, and until then, you have no right to assert your claims as "proof."

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Yes, it is GOOD they try to compete, but for government - for any government a non-trusted OS is unacceptable!
                This has something to do with informational security and control.

                ----------



                Ah, "butthurt" effect! Your microsoft masters unhappy? GOOD! Enjoy!



                Yeah, back to your swastika screen.
                Despite this not being to my response, I must note how terribly childish it is. For you to even reference to such a far-reaching video makes me begin to doubt if you're even worthy of a discussion. I'm sure there are numerous offensive symbols one could make with a distortion of the Tux mascot as well. Let me know when you've matured in thought. Until then, reason seems to be a hopelessly remedial trial with you...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                  Messenger of what? You haven't been able to point out one specific fact that backs your bullshit statements. You obviously don't know anything about Linux as is evident by your comments, yet you feel you have to troll sites like this and spread you lies about a operating system you are obviously not using.

                  Man, you must lead such a sad life.
                  I don't have to point out shit, linux is a giant cluster fuck, and the users, yes YOU, the user community is so hostile to any form of criticism that no one really wants to deal with you fucking idiots, hardly anyone. Seriously. See that market share ? what 1% at best ? yeah, nobody wants to deal with you people. You know why ? Your all raging assholes.

                  Hah, coming from a guy who doesn't even know how to code?
                  Says whom ? You don't know what I do and don't know.

                  Now I would not pass any judgement on the code quality of closed systems as I've had no chance to examine it, however I've seen nothing indicating it would be of any less quality than that of 'proprietary systems'. Given how Linux is totally dominating in hpc / supercomputers, used heavily in stock markets, military, industrial settings, embedded, servers then I'd say it having great code quality is a given. But please, if you can point to any code in the Linux kernel tree which is of poor code quality, please do so.
                  I can pass judgement fiarly easily, they turn out a polished product, most closed studios. Obviously code quality is superior becuase people are even willing to pay for the privilage of using that software. But hey, code quality must all be orginizational right ? I mean commenting, code style etc ? Thats the hallmark of quality ? not really. Show me one competitng program thats open source that sucessfully competes with a closed source product ?

                  bueller ?


                  Just came upon this link today, describing the use of Linux at CERN, http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/07/l...discovery.html
                  wow, scientist using a easily customized operating systems that seasily tailored to their specific needs. What a shocker.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
                    I don't have to point out shit, linux is a giant cluster fuck, and the users, yes YOU, the user community is so hostile to any form of criticism that no one really wants to deal with you fucking idiots
                    Lol, you can't even point to anything specific and yet you claim the 'community' is hostile to criticism? The 'community' (whatever that defines) is obviously hostile to made-up bullshit which is the only thing you've ever presented.

                    Again I can't fathom what drives people like you, I mean you don't like using Linux, that's perfectly fine. I don't particularly like using Windows but I would never waste one second of my life running around on forums attacking it, or by making up lies, I simply don't use it.

                    But then we have guys like you, you've spread countless lies about Linux over at Haiku.org which have done nothing but highlight your ignorance and now you come here (and likely other places I'm not aware of), a Linux-centric site and continue to spread these same lies. Is it a mental disorder or do you simply have nothing more meaningful to do with your life than to make up lies about a system you are not even interested in using?

                    Seriously, put your energy to something creative, learn to code and write something for Haiku for instance, liking Haiku is the one thing we agree on so why not spend your time on furthering it's useability?

                    Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
                    Says whom ? You don't know what I do and don't know.
                    My estimation of your programming ability comes from the comments on the subject I've read from you on both Haiku.org and Haikuware.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
                      Show me one competitng program thats open source that sucessfully competes with a closed source product ?
                      Firefox. Simple as that.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        thatguy is obviously a troll with 0 knowledge of OS or programming i even doubt he is an engineer in computer science, why i say so?
                        cuz no engineer or professional whines about crap he don't understand without providing any sort of proof!!!, after all this crap you still haven't even said which problem you have/distro/application/etc, so ofc what the F do you expect.

                        so you don't post a real issue, you never provide technical responses just stupid rants, your post public like a billboard that you are some average joe butthurted with linux for some reason (that you don't provide btw), linux suck posts in a technical forum about linux(very original btw i bet you are the first) is the by the book definition of TROLL, so is not the community been harsh is you.

                        if you are trully interested in learn then literate yourself a bit more and find more consumer focused forums first then when you have a better understanding come back.

                        my last post to you i don't like to feed trolls

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          First, let me start off by saying that, through your lack of presentable facts and hastened, disorganized conclusions, I can reasonably say that it seems apparent as if I am conversing with a child on this subject matter. The absurdity of your conclusions and the audacity of your arguments, substantiated by nothing more than mere propagandistic and uncertain theories, continually portray a sentiment based on little knowledge or foresight, and were this analytical approach taken to political discussion, I assure you that you would most likely be labeled as a conspiracy theorist.
                          Labels are animal thing.
                          Also, there is nothing reasonable behind your assumptions, because you lack facts. Trying to use complex word constructions to express simple things signals lack of wisdom, child.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Perhaps you'd benefit from understanding the difference between an assumption and a fact. Nevertheless, I guess I'll still be taking my time to respond to your ridiculous rantings...
                          Fact is a change perceived externally, while assumption is originating within. Both are subjective.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Nevertheless, I guess I'll still be taking my time to respond to your ridiculous rantings...
                          Sure, but don't expect me to pay you, majesty.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Actually, no; that's not quite enough. Microsoft and Nokia both agreed to a mutual business partnership. That's a corporation-to-corporation pact, and is in no way related to what you're asserting as a corporation-to-government bribery. In addition, just simply pointing to an unrelated event such as the agreement between Microsoft and Nokia, and then using that to justify your position here (in which Microsoft has "bribed" the Russian government) is, once again, making assumptions. I repeat, you have failed thus far to provide me with any source of Microsoft's financial, corporate, or social involvement with the Russian government, whatsoever. It's highly unnecessary to reference to extraneous occurrences, unless you have the intended purpose of directing attention away from the flaws in your premises.
                          Elop was high-ranked MS employee. MS completely slept off the smartphone rise. First, they need a stable manufacturer and patent field - granted they have collected large amount of $$$ via their monopoly, they have large selection. Second, they need someone who has added value.
                          Third, if they ignore, they stay on pretty much dead platform (dead essentially only because of their own console effort)

                          Nokia was supporting Qt AND developing Unix-based OS (in addition to Symbian). It is also well established mobile brand (Pavlovs stereotyped labels ding-ding).

                          So MS takes three hits with one.

                          I don't think I need to explain the connection between minister walking towards MS stand on Expo and his burning desire to abort million-weight project instantly afterwards. Note, that was not his million.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          I repeat, you have failed thus far to provide me with any source of Microsoft's financial, corporate, or social involvement with the Russian government, whatsoever.
                          Yes, this current absence of facts is pretty good. But if you want me to get more private details from chief minister,.. I'm of wrong gender. Perhaps, you try?

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Okay, and just because he's for Microsoft and against a specific Linux distribution, that makes him "corrupt?"
                          He is against FOSS technology within the governmental level AND for utilization of proprietary technology of uncontrollable country. You don't need to e-walk further than to Iran to understand the effects.
                          Also, utilization of open technology - we are not talking about kernel, but also about toolkits, desktop & programming environments, ecosystem - will enlarge both development and market segment of the environiment.
                          Additionally, the decision was already carried on, he is up to aborting it using his position.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          I don't care if it's already in development.
                          Ah, lol, another troll.
                          Cmmon, join forces with thatguy. MS Troll Force, division Phoronix, the internets.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          What makes you think you know so much about the Russian government's specific situation here?
                          You don't need to be expert to spot greed.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Is every government official who chooses something by Microsoft over a Linux solution considered an effect of "bribery" and "corruption,"
                          Yes. Except it jurisdictionally surrenders to the laws of the government, which hosts the company in question.
                          For example, if MS software is deployed in Europe, it will have less abuse potential than if its deployed in independent-to-US country.
                          Operating system provides both low-level functionality to all processes (applications) as well as dictates the system design.

                          Closed source system, which is not controllable per law, is a distrusted system. I can lie to you and run away.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          simply because they made a decision you were unhappy about?
                          That is rather a small and unimportant part, but I'm happy that the decision was not made.
                          On the contrary, you seem to be rather unhappy. Please think again my offer to create Join MS Troll Forces. Maybe you will be offered a position of Trolltenant...

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Are you unaware of the possibility of the solution presented by Microsoft, for their specific scenario, being better than whatever Linux solution they had originally? Until you bring further information about this, your claims are all part of a series of overreaching speculation.
                          Well, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be trusting a closed source computer you can't throw out of the window. WOZ knows more about it.
                          You sure can't throw a server farm out of the window ad-hoc. No speculations here.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Once again, another baseless claim. I question how you're so "knowledgable" about what the Russian government's opinion is on Windows. Do you work for them?
                          No, I use google comrad.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          So, I take it that if a minister isn't resigning in protest to corruption, the only other possibility must be "for fun." -__-
                          In America, not in Russia. Sorry.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          For your sake, I hope you adopt a more broad perspective in your outlook on politics.
                          I have one and its easy to sum up in six words - politics are as inevitable, as dirty.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          It's highly probably that the minister simply resigned in protest to only the adoption of a Microsoft solution over a Linux one, on a technologically-ideological basis (and not a belief in corruption). In fact, if you reread part of the article...

                          ...you can see that he's more concerned about the ability for Russian programmers to benefit from a Russian-made operating system. It doesn't seem like he's concerned with the fact that it's just something by Microsoft, and he even lumps Google and other "tech giants" in there, too.
                          He is a patriot, the other one is greedy.
                          Patriotism is good, so long it stays within country limits, its prioritizing the community. On the other hand, greed is one of purest forms of ego.
                          Also, that's about staff, not programmers on broad range of meaning.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Again, I've defined here what it means to have baseless claims. You have yet to provide me with a source, and until then, you have no right to assert your claims as "proof."
                          Hrhrhr, politics are NOT science (by other definition, not precise science). You can't find any reliable source in politics, except for what's already happened. Even then, you can't draw explicit conclusions, only use modus ponens. If you want authentic verification of facts, call him.

                          Originally posted by Prince781 View Post
                          Despite this not being to my response, I must note how terribly childish it is. For you to even reference to such a far-reaching video makes me begin to doubt if you're even worthy of a discussion. I'm sure there are numerous offensive symbols one could make with a distortion of the Tux mascot as well. Let me know when you've matured in thought. Until then, reason seems to be a hopelessly remedial trial with you...
                          Yeah, try to find it.
                          As for MS swastika, you just rotate it to 45 degree - no photoshopping involved. Ironically, it does not happen with normal windows (in apartments) so the logo from billion-heavy company is obviously done by intent or grave failure. Take your pick.
                          Last edited by crazycheese; 07-22-2012, 11:59 PM.

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