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What Are The Biggest Problems With Linux?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Unfortunately it's not as easy as it sounds. As a package maintainer and distro creator I have to say that even for open source software it's an awfully tedious and difficult process - Microsoft have resources for that.
    Who care about Microsoft. Simply make the features needed if they aren't there or unsuitable in Linux. Example add a module to an IDE to update the various repositories or build types.

    I will never be using Microsoft again.

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    • #77
      the stable API has high costs. that is library bloat. for one thing, only a monumental idiot would run an app that is not actively maintained. and besides, you can't count on backwards compatibility. quickbooks written in 2004 did not work for vista that came out in 2006. i think the osx's minimal approach to backwards compatibility is the best balance between "running 3.1 apps on windows 8" and constant breakage.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Jebril View Post
        Stability not in terms of the kernel but in software, desktop environments and so on is very important and something that is very shaky with the Linux distributions. GRUB is also a pain in the ass, too many things can go wrong with it too easily, it needs to be more secure to editing in both Linux AND Windows.

        Lack of support for drivers is another big thing as well as lack of support for general mainstream software. These arise for a self fulfilling cycle really, many people don't want to join in the Linux ranks because of these issues and thus developers and companies refuse to develop for Linux because they see it as a wasted investment.

        So for me the two biggest things are stability and support.

        The innovation is definitely there though and it's the thing that I love the most about Linux.
        So both points are Companies the Problem, because instability of X-server is when that is happening most of the time in 99% of the time a problem of binary driver blobs from Nvidia and AMD. And that no "mainstream Software" is under linux availible can also only the companys that make this software change nobody else.

        The only point who isnt about big companys faults was the point about GRUB, so Microsoft does it here worse, 1. they overwrite without questioning your old grub 2. they have not even a windows-only tool where you are able to add linux to their boot loader. So its unfair to say here are some linux-ONLY problems even if they do more than microsoft does.

        And btw when you try to make a simple Linux installation like you would do in windows install it to a normal partition with the standard-fs, I dont see that much can happen, if you start to use magic like hell with lvm btrfs etc softwareraid, yes then something can go wrong. But some of this are also made by big companies, as exmaple the new efi-shit with its secure boot etc.
        Last edited by blackiwid; 06-10-2012, 05:48 PM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by garegin View Post
          the stable API has high costs. that is library bloat. for one thing, only a monumental idiot would run an app that is not actively maintained. and besides, you can't count on backwards compatibility. quickbooks written in 2004 did not work for vista that came out in 2006. i think the osx's minimal approach to backwards compatibility is the best balance between "running 3.1 apps on windows 8" and constant breakage.
          One flaw of Linux is that such a small portion of the software that is available is actually actively maintained. A lot of the niche applications (which for some people are the very reason that they run Linux) are quite poorly maintained.

          In that case, people have no choice but to run unmaintained software.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            For me it is that open source graphics device drivers are not so good as the proprietary ones; games don't work well, and too slow to watch 1080p (or even 720p) videos on YouTube.
            The same applied to any operating system that come with bundled driver non optimized for gaming. Microsoft Windows system heavily depends from vendors to be fully operational. OS X is specific to hardware optimized by Apple.

            And Ubuntu was the cool kid on the block but now is grandma.
            Before Ubuntu, there were SuSE, Mandrake/Mandriva, Mepis or other distribution specialized in desktop.

            * New release of GIMP or PHP comes out, and I have to wait 6 fucking months? What the hell? On Windows I can get it on same day!
            From which distribution? Gimp history is documented, the reason why it took so long is due to GEGL.

            * No cool new fancy software. Cinnamon, BeatBox, etc all latest software is nowhere to be found.
            If you ask a gamer, its because Linux have no games and AMD drivers are shoddy.
            Do you mean mainstream games like Call of Duty? That is specific to publishers themselves.

            If you ask a laptop user, its because issues with power management, ACPI, hibernation, etc. No GPU switching between integrated and discreet graphics card.
            That is depending on vendors themselves and companies like Microsoft interfering in hardware specification.

            If you ask a professional user, there is no professional video editor, no professional graphics editor, no professional CAD software, etc.
            Linux have very much software that is great, much that is great for consumers. But it often cant compete against commercial software by huge vendors when it comes to some software.
            Those listed software are available for profession like Ardour, Blender. CAD is more complicated due to political matters rather than technical.

            If you ask a software developer company, its the fragmentation and tons of different Linux distributions to deploy to.
            Proceeding by elimination, two main SDK available: GTK and QT. Each can be written in addition of other programming language from C to Python via Ruby.

            If you ask some company, its probably something to do with Active Directory, Microsoft Exchange, SharePoint or something like that.
            Open-Xchange, Zimbra, 389 Directory (formely Fedora Directory Server).


            Key points are research.

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            • #81
              As far as *Desktop* Linux is concerned...

              ... the biggest problem is a certain anti-competitive corporate monopoly making it difficult to impossible for hardware vendors to support any operating system that doesn't have a trademarked name starting w/ "W".

              The next biggest problem after that has everything to do with applications. I love LibreOffice Calc, but there is simply no way I could use it at work, even if they would let me. For all of of Excel 2010's horribly botched interface, it still has power and features it's OSS equivalents lack. Similar arguments have been made comparing Adobe's products w/tools like GIMP and InkScape (which seem fine to me, but I'm not a professional designer). When people are looking for reasons to not like Linux in the first place, losing functionality in tools they depend on is not a winning argument.

              Which is a pity, because Desktop Linux has the best opportunity for increasing market share it's every likely to get. Windows 8 is the most colossally hubristic mistake Microsoft has made since Bob. The learning curve of adopting the Metro interface versus the learning curve of switching to Ubuntu or Mint looks like a coin toss to me.

              The apps aren't going to get better until more people can make a living writing them. But how do you pay people to write code for less than 2% of the market--particularly when the code, strictly speaking, is given away? It's a vicious cycle--I wish I knew a way to break it.

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              • #82
                This is amazing. Thank you for this link, it'll save me a lot of time explaining to people why we don't waste time porting games to Linux.

                There's one problem no amount of money can solve: for most Open Source developers Linux is a playground, a thing they don't care beyond their aspirations, thus we have constantly broken features and API breakage every odd moon cycle.
                There's that, plus the complete lack of real QA. The Microsoft Azure QA team alone is larger than the entire developer and tester pool of X.org, Mesa, GTK, GNOME, and the DRI/DRM bits of the kernel. You would crap yourself if you had any idea of the size of the team responsible for just DirectX.

                FOSS, for all the talk about it being open to anyone and having "millions of eyeballs," simply does not have a very large developer pool, and has an even smaller "support staff" pool. Real professionals with actual skill/talent are doing their work for pay. The good ones are doing it for a lot of pay. They do not have free time after working 40-60 hours/week to hack on a hobbyist OS or software, and even if they did they probably want to spend their non-working hours doing something other than slaving away on more software. Take that fact along with the fact that the largest FOSS companies have teeny tiny profits compared to even the run of the mill proprietary software companies (Red Hat's recent $1b _gross revenue_ is about the same as the _net profit_ of some of the smaller well-known software companies), and you have the cause for the practically barren developer pool on the important FOSS projects, and the reason why the folks working on those projects keep complaining about being so seriously under-manned.

                This doesn't help the student that this article was for, but the sad fact is that there is no real help. One student working to better Linux is not what Linux needs. An army of professionals being backed by a multi-billion-dollar software empire is what Linux needs. Only, no multi-billion-dollar Linux empire is ever going to exist (ignoring future inflation) because there's no way to make that kind of money on software that nobody outside of a few large server farm operators have any reasons to pay for.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                  CAD is more complicated due to political matters rather than technical.
                  No it isn't. There are already 2 native linux programs that are 100% compatible with the latest DWG2010 specification and that work 99% like AutoCAD: BricsCAD and DraftSight. If you know the AutoCAD commands you'll have no problem using any of these programs, although only BricsCAD has basic support for 3D modeling. BricsCAD is closed source and commercial, DraftSight is free but has less features and is less polished.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                    This is amazing. Thank you for this link, it'll save me a lot of time explaining to people why we don't waste time porting games to Linux.
                    You could easily write a list of horror point in Windows too. Simply the user experience in Linux is far from horror. It usually is a story of empowerment, freedom, and functionality.

                    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                    There's that, plus the complete lack of real QA. The Microsoft Azure QA team alone is larger than the entire developer and tester pool of X.org, Mesa, GTK, GNOME, and the DRI/DRM bits of the kernel. You would crap yourself if you had any idea of the size of the team responsible for just DirectX.
                    So what. Azure is a lame project anyway. Direct X is justified and I give it credit, but it's come from Microsoft's deviant manipulation of hardware makers. Just because Direct X is nice doesn't make me want to use Windows. Far from it.

                    Linux is the future. I can't say that about Microsoft. Microsoft is as good as its cunning works and as time goes I see more leaving Windows.

                    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                    This doesn't help the student that this article was for, but the sad fact is that there is no real help. One student working to better Linux is not what Linux needs. An army of professionals being backed by a multi-billion-dollar software empire is what Linux needs. Only, no multi-billion-dollar Linux empire is ever going to exist (ignoring future inflation) because there's no way to make that kind of money on software that nobody outside of a few large server farm operators have any reasons to pay for.
                    That could be one avenue. I agree.

                    The simple fact is we are going into a world of austerity. Many businesses will fail. Many may start. Many people have habits that are linked to Microsoft software, a culture to stay with MS, but this is crumbling. More and more people don't need to use Excel, nor AutoCad, nor Outlook, or Adobe. The web is also changing. Open source and free projects are gaining ground. It's also upto user to push businesses to accept more then the old titles. Like if a Government department wants MS file types then demand they support open source.

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                    • #85
                      There is no big single problem...

                      It's more like a thousand papercuts... At first, you're like: "hey! this is quite fantastic!". Then you can't play that game because your video driver stopped working with the last X server update. Then the HDMI plug on your specific laptop is not working that month. Then sound latency is horrible for a couple of weeks because of a regression in pulse audio and or alsa and or phonon and or gstreamer. Then your printer does not have an ink monitoring utility. Then you have to fiddle with every single f****ng KDE application because their default window sizes are all 109x208 and you start to wonder if there are any QA going on on these distros/desktop projects. Then that big DE throws the baby with the bathwater and tells you to start using that awesome tablet/phone interface. Then that new feature that will make you PC so much better is in a git repository somewhere on the net and will be integrated in 2014 in the next major release of Archbuntubayon 22.4 but by then the developpers will have changed their mind and that feature will be replaced by that newfangled wizzbang dbus interface that works once every moon cycle. Then that software you have used for 10 years will be forked because a developper nobody cares about somewhere in Braziluzuela has developped a shitty attitude and won't talk to other people. Then you have to stare at a cashew at the corner of your screen that you have no idea what its use can be. Then there are no minimize buttons suddenly on your window decoration. Then they rename udev to systemd-tools and you have to fight for hours figuring out why pacman won't upgrade your OS. Then the KDE guys do a system tray protocol and the Gnome guys think :"What the hell! We'll do our own instead of reusing their stuff!". Then.... Then... Then...

                      Then you reinstall a pirated copy of Windows...

                      I started using Linux a long time ago with a Slackware '96 cdrom i got for 10 bucks at a computer expo while i still was in school. I've used KDE since the 1.1 series. All the way to 3.5. Then KDE went into a 5 years alpha phase and got decent again by the 4.6 series. The other options were XFCE (like going back to the fvwm days) or Gnome (like having a cheap and uncool Mac). It was 2007 and i was so tired of all this shit that i just said goodbye and never looked back. Sorry.

                      I tried many distros recently just to check if maybe thing were getting better... then all the things i described in the first paragraph happened to me in a 2 weeks period after trying Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Sabayon, Arch, Chakra and Fedora. Then it hit me right in the face: Linux on the desktop is dead. Deal with it. Until people start cooperating it's never gonna get better. You have to work so hard to get anything done on a Linux desktop... It's just not worth the effort.

                      They say if you scratch a cynic, you find a disapointed idealist...

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                        Take that fact along with the fact that the largest FOSS companies have teeny tiny profits compared to even the run of the mill proprietary software companies (Red Hat's recent $1b _gross revenue_ is about the same as the _net profit_ of some of the smaller well-known software companies), and you have the cause for the practically barren developer pool on the important FOSS projects, and the reason why the folks working on those projects keep complaining about being so seriously under-manned.
                        You should note that companies like IBM, Intel and Google also support and invest heavily on Linux and they are among the largest companies on the industry. Altough they don't really focus on desktop they still indirectly work on many parts of the stack. The desktop Linux is close to feature parity with Windows on almost everything on the plaform level. If hardware manufacturers would take more active role in developing drivers for Linux we would be just about set. OpenGL as spesification is much more widely adopted by industry than Direct3D for example and I fail to see any truly blocking technical difficulties that would stop Linux from entering the market.

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                        • #87
                          Agree with you pat, though everyone will scream "THEN USE A STABLE DISTRO!"
                          I have and had similar problems, update my ubuntu loose moose support and hdmi support.
                          Little stuff like that happening every few months, is to annoying.

                          The next thing you hear is "USE LINUX SUPPORTED HARDWARE!"
                          well my mouse and my wifi were supported, the wifi had great drivers, then one update
                          it quit working and has yet to get patched, its been a year at least and there have been
                          bug reports.

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                          • #88
                            [Native] Applications

                            I do not think that's a problem with linux itself, but a problem with open source applications available, specifically they features, missing or incomplete.
                            many open source applications tend to be very "weak" compared to their proprietary counterparts.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by vertexSymphony View Post
                              Disabled by default (man nouveau), add this option to you xorg.conf(.d):

                              Code:
                              Option "GLXVBlank" "true"
                              ^ Basically see my opinion about sane defaults and ease of configuration for multiple hardware/software situations.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                                You could easily write a list of horror point in Windows too.
                                ... can you?

                                Simply the user experience in Linux is far from horror. It usually is a story of empowerment, freedom, and functionality.
                                The kind of empowerment that users actually want is the kind that doesn't require them to spend months mastering being a Linux sysadmin and instead spending their free time doing things they actually care about.

                                Sure, you (and me and everyone else on Phoronix) are massive dorks who actually do enjoy tinkering around with OSes. The other 99% of people think that just about anything _other_ than tinkering with OSes is fun.

                                So what. Azure is 7 a lame project anyway.
                                The "unsexiness" of that project is exactly the point I was trying to make. Cool projects in Linux should -- according to the rhetoric of FOSS -- be attracting talented users in droves, since after all the projects aren't "limited" by funding or schedules or management and anyone can contribute. Instead, Linux projects get tiny handfuls of devs at best and many of those potential developers are going to work for a company on a project like Azure because that company can actually pay them what they're worth.

                                Direct X is justified and I give it credit, but it's come from Microsoft's deviant manipulation of hardware makers.
                                Yeah... Microsoft doesn't work the way the average Linux hipster thinks it does (yes, I too once wrote things like "M$" thinking I was so clever and smarter than the "Windoze" sheeple). In any case, regular users don't make OS choices based on hate, and they sure as hell don't give a crap if a company is or is not manipulating hardware manufacturers. If things worked the way you think they do, Microsoft would have died out in 1980's.

                                Microsoft is as good as its cunning works and as time goes I see more leaving Windows.
                                The actual stats show that the only people leaving Windows are the people going to Macs. Of course, they also show that a lot of the hardcore Linux users of 1990's and early 2000's also moved to Macs. Linux was at 1% in 1999. It's at 1% now. Projecting historical evidence indicates that it'll still be at 1% in 2025.

                                And no, Android doesn't count. Android is Linux the same way that the Sega Saturn was Windows.

                                Like if a Government department wants MS file types then demand they support open source.
                                I actually worked for a very large government installation for years, doing in-house software development and some light sysadmin work on the Linux server farm. This was back in my Linux fanboy days. It is actually one of the larger catalysts that caused me to turn from a "Linux is the future" proponent like yourself into a "Linux is a nice Web server OS, but thank God there's someone I can give money to in exchange for a less frustrating desktop experience" believer.

                                Government jobs will best illustrate for you just how great Windows is for idiots who can't tell their assholes from floppy drives and how awful Linux is for "idiots" who can't figure out how to read unified diff files generated by dpkg when foobar-1.7.2b changes config file compatibility with foobar-1.7.2a.

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