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  • #76
    hey AnonymousCoward i now watches "The City Addicted to Crystal Meth" and its more a documentary about incompetence in the tropic drugs,withdrawal and therapy.

    Most people don't know anything about that.

    For example if you capture one and put him into prison then he gets a cold withdrawal.
    And this cold-withdrawal is one of the bad experience what the people drive to do anything to don't have a cold-withdrawal again.
    this is just incompetence.

    how to do it right?

    i make a example for heroin:
    there are 3. valid professional ways to to the withdrawal
    1. Put the patient into a Coma and wait and awake him after the drugs are gone and the body is recovered.
    2. Make a very very slow warm withdrawal(slow means very slow)
    but this is only the withdrawal the chance to stay clean is 2 ways are less than 10%
    3. the use of Iboga.
    the chance to stay clean in the iboga way are up to 80%

    then you can go even more advance.
    after the withdrawal you can use drugs like "Naloxon" the most advance way is a 2-year-Naloxon-implant with that drug/implant its impossible to use heroin again because if you use it again you get a cold-withdrawal instantly and you risk to die. the chance to stay clean grow up to 90% with this advance way.

    For Crystal its more complex because a warm withdrawal isn't possible.
    Sure Iboga still do have a effect in blocking the addiction but there are no drugs like "Naloxon" to make the abuse impossible.

    there are known anti addiction drugs like Iboga,LSD,LSA,Psilocybin you can use to grow your chance to stay clean and no its not a substitute drug because there are no known addiction in this drugs they just push the focus away from the drug "crystal"

    i think the highest chance to get a crystal user clean is : 1. Put the patient into a Coma and wait and awake him after the drugs are gone and the body is recovered. after that use Iboga,LSD,LSA,Psilocybin to make a Therapy and solve their problems for example the use of GBL/GHB to make a strict daily rhythm by force them to sleep at night with GBL.

    also a 'Deep brain stimulation-generator' in the brain do have a great impact against addiction.

    In Fact 'talk-therapy' are useless for heroin and crystal addicts the chance to stay clean is less than 10%.

    because of these Facts the documentary "The City Addicted to Crystal Meth" and its more a documentary about incompetence

    cold-withdrawal=incompetence and dangerous
    talk-therapy=incompetence and complete useless
    war on drugs=incompetence

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
      Nice troll, but you can't diagnose that from the internet.
      you are right here diagnoses from the Internet is naive.


      Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
      You need to find a better way to flame the genius pot head that's so hopped up on acid that he can't be bothered with proof-reading anything.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia

      even a genius with dyslexia can't heal them self.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        not as easy as crystal ? then heroin does not do a addiction ?

        because: "wikipedia 'alcoholism addiction' ". These effects are due mainly to the increased production of dopamine and endorphins, but also foster a strong withdrawal symptoms once present dependence.""

        and endorphins are the Endogenous version of HEROIN!

        endorphin=heroin there is no different for the body.
        Oh for fuck sake, there is a huge difference: you can't get addicted to endorphins because they are in limited supply in your body, while you can inject heroin until you foam from your mouth. The very replacement of endogenous substances with external supply is the main cause for addiction.

        also explain me why is this alcohol addiction article in the wikipedia longer than the crystal article ?

        http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkoholkrankheit

        also worldwide 1000 time more people die from Alcohol than from crystal.

        Alcohol is just the killer drug nr1 in germany and worldwide!
        Thats very likely true. Everybody knows that alcohol abuse kills.
        you are just a Liar
        You have to learn not to call people liars all over the place. That's not polite. Even if they are wrong, they are likely so in good faith, and then there is the possibility that you might be wrong - what then, you've offended everyone already. Or do you, in your vanity just don't accept ever being wrong?

        very tiny dosage [of alcohol] make you ill newest studies from Germans prove this.
        newest news about this studies : http://www.welt.de/gesundheit/articl...ebsrisiko.html

        "Even at only 10 grams of alcohol a day - about a glass of beer - According to the DGE increases the risk for mouth, throat and esophageal cancer."
        DGE (German Society for Nutrition): "It would be best, therefore, to drink no alcohol."
        This is a non-scientific article in a newspaper, not a "new study". Yes alcohol consumption (of more than 2 drinks/day for men and 1/day for women) increases risk for cancer (wikipedia). Its easy to find on google and wikipedia and it has been known for some time now. There are also studies indicating that daily intake of wine (1 glass) is beneficial (because of other substances dissolved in it). Also, a drink lowers blood pressure, decreasing risk for people with arteriosclerosis.
        Besides most people do not consume alcohol daily and main cause of alcohol related deaths are trauma (accidents, fights) and liver failure.

        Compared to alcohol, methamphetamine is very easy do get addicted to, and its effects are more severe. I dont know if its better to be addicted to alcohol or meth, I know you get quite fucked up by both, so best not to try meth (risk for addiction) and drink alcohol responsibly (very little).

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
          hey AnonymousCoward i now watches "The City Addicted to Crystal Meth" and its more a documentary about incompetence in the tropic drugs,withdrawal and therapy.

          Most people don't know anything about that.

          For example if you capture one and put him into prison then he gets a cold withdrawal.
          And this cold-withdrawal is one of the bad experience what the people drive to do anything to don't have a cold-withdrawal again.
          this is just incompetence.

          how to do it right?
          ...
          cold-withdrawal=incompetence and dangerous
          talk-therapy=incompetence and complete useless
          war on drugs=incompetence
          How about prevention?
          Cleaning addiction sounds like a risky, complicated, expensive and not reliable affair.
          Just don't do drugs in the first place.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            Oh for fuck sake, there is a huge difference: you can't get addicted to endorphins because they are in limited supply in your body
            you are just wrong many drugs like Alcohol and crystal only push out the body's own endorphins this is the same addiction like heroin does.
            and the limited supply does not mean you are not addicted to endorphins.
            biochemical there is do difference between the endorphines and heroin both act on opioid receptors.

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            , while you can inject heroin until you foam from your mouth.
            you also can inject endorphin no difference to heroin.

            its like Anadamid for the body there is no difference between body own anadamid and marijuana/THC

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            The very replacement of endogenous substances with external supply is the main cause for addiction.
            No this is not the case because some people just do dangerous risky behavior only to get the endogenous drugs. like skydiving or fixtures in martial arts. there are many athlete addicted to endogenous drugs.
            and i don't count sport for health i only count dangerous sport.

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            Thats very likely true. Everybody knows that alcohol abuse kills.
            o wow a agreement you are welcome

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            You have to learn not to call people liars all over the place. That's not polite. Even if they are wrong, they are likely so in good faith, and then there is the possibility that you might be wrong - what then, you've offended everyone already. Or do you, in your vanity just don't accept ever being wrong?
            Yes I really do have a problem with this. But for me it makes no difference lying or ignorance i can not find out the truth. how to find out the truth to distinguish lying and ignorance?
            Yes there is a probability that I'm wrong. But how to make sure to always be on the right side? There is no save way to check this out.
            is a rhetorical competition there is no room for doubt. and you can not distinguish between ignorance and lie.

            but You can give me tips how to manage this.

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            This is a non-scientific article in a newspaper, not a "new study".
            reading the newspaper is a hard work because if you understand this simple newspaper you understand the scientific aspect.
            the DGE is the official German institute for truth about food/drink.
            and the DGE reviewed the scientific facts and makes a new guideline for the German food/drink.
            its now official in Germany even a single glas of alcohol like beer is unhealthy.
            In Germany the DGE guideline is LAW and ORDER before court the DGE guideline is the ultimate fact (in germany)
            if you claim alcohol is a healthy drink/food i can sue you and the court is forced to the DGE (in germany).

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            Yes alcohol consumption (of more than 2 drinks/day for men and 1/day for women) increases risk for cancer (wikipedia). Its easy to find on google and wikipedia and it has been known for some time now.
            in germany wikipedia dosn't matter the court is only forced by DGE.
            wikipedia is not "law and order" the judge give a shit about wikipedia.
            in Germany the DGE is the official institute.

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            There are also studies indicating that daily intake of wine (1 glass) is beneficial (because of other substances dissolved in it).
            This is pure ignorance (for me you are a liar here) because all studies proved wrong with that claim. All meta study and control study prove this claim wrong.
            Wikipedia: "Increased life expectancy is only a statistical effect, since under the anti-alcoholics are also people who drink just because of a disease and associated lower life expectancy, no alcohol. [91] [92]"
            http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol...iche_Wirkungen

            your claim is only a statistical effect. there is no healthy effect in reality.

            "A new meta-analysis of 54 international studies that dealt with alcohol and heart protection - the oldest was from 1974, the youngest in 2004 - raises fundamental doubts about the frequently postulated positive health effects of moderate alcohol consumption [93]."

            "The meta-analysis published in 2006, by contrast to the conclusion that 47 of the 54 studies reviewed have a serious error, therefore the above conclusions were losing credibility. Thus, in most studies were former drinkers - with all her work through the consumption of alcohol cumulative health problems - the group attributed to the abstainers. These "late" teetotaler, the drinking at an advanced age because of - partly due to alcohol consumption caused - have abandoned chronic disease give up and had to be, with the "real" abstainers, so those people who avoid for many years, alcohol or which have never been drunk, summarized in a group. This approach is, however, the average health of people in the group of "abstainers" generally down - according to the authors of the meta-study, a significant methodological error. This creates the - wrong - impression in the group of (real) Anti-alcoholics there was a higher number of deaths than the moderate drinkers, so that the latter appear to be very healthy and long life again. However, considering the "abstainer error" reduce, the postulated positive effects of moderate alcohol consumption and these are no longer available. Results graphically viewed with increasing alcohol consumption, therefore no (strong) J-curve, but rather a steady increase in alcohol-caused death and disease."

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            Also, a drink lowers blood pressure, decreasing risk for people with arteriosclerosis.
            Besides most people do not consume alcohol daily and main cause of alcohol related deaths are trauma (accidents, fights) and liver failure.
            just stop this bullshit all positive effects about alcohol are just Publication bias bullshit!

            Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
            Compared to alcohol, methamphetamine is very easy do get addicted to, and its effects are more severe. I dont know if its better to be addicted to alcohol or meth, I know you get quite fucked up by both, so best not to try meth (risk for addiction) and drink alcohol responsibly (very little).
            read my response i can easily prove you 'ignorance' and a ignorance person can not make a valid point on the risk on crystal.
            with a good drug and health management Alcohol is more dangerous than crystal.

            but I can not recommend both.

            i recommend drugs like LSD,GHB,THC,salvia divinorum,LSA,Psilocybin,Iboga,Meskalin.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
              How about prevention?
              Cleaning addiction sounds like a risky, complicated, expensive and not reliable affair.
              Just don't do drugs in the first place.
              Sure in a "my little pony,sugar,sweet,fun" naive world this works.
              In Reality this just don't work.
              because humans experiment a lot and they also try danger stuff even if they know its bad and risky.

              i prefer true solutions without nativity.

              Comment


              • #82
                german wikipedia says that crystal is medicine in the USA:

                "In the U.S. there is the treatment of cold-induced nasal congestion with a Inhalierstift Levomethamphetamin in very low doses (Vicks Vapor Inhaler ®), the euphoric effects or an addiction precludes development. The enantiomer Dextromethamphetamin in the U.S. for the treatment of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), used for sleeping sickness (narcolepsy) and morbid obesity (brand name: Desoxyn ®). Even here in each of the salt in the form of methamphetamine hydrochloride is used."

                another interesting point is the “meth mouth”
                the American Dental Association point out that the meth mouth has the following cause:
                "decreased production of saliva, a dry mouth has resulted
                poor oral hygiene
                increased consumption of sugary drinks
                frequent teeth grinding (bruxism and trismus), which may cause damage and wear of tooth enamel brings with it [2] [3]"

                Surprise Surprise the crystal is not the cause.

                crystal is not to blame if someone do have poor oral hygiene.
                also crystal is not guilty if someone consume sugary drinks.
                crystal is not to blame if someone do teeth grinding.

                the only side effect from crystal about the “meth mouth” 'is the decreased production of saliva, a dry mouth has resulted'.

                but yes many medicine drugs do have this side effect.

                in fact the “meth mouth” is a propaganda fake.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  Sure in a "my little pony,sugar,sweet,fun" naive world this works.
                  In Reality this just don't work.
                  because humans experiment a lot and they also try danger stuff even if they know its bad and risky.

                  i prefer true solutions without nativity.
                  People try dangerous stuff more if they don't know it's risky.
                  I find your dismissive stand against drug education and prevention extremely ignorant.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                    People try dangerous stuff more if they don't know it's risky.
                    maybe but why there are so many alcoholics ?

                    Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                    I find your dismissive stand against drug education and prevention extremely ignorant.
                    no I'm a advocate for drug-educating but please not only theories also practice ! I'm for practical drug lessons at school. they should try all non-addictive and non-harmful drug at school. LSD for example or Marijuana.

                    I'm only against prevention! because this is just against the freedom of the people.

                    the people should be free to try Heroin. (and 1 single try do not make body-addiction)

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      you are just wrong many drugs like Alcohol and crystal only push out the body's own endorphins this is the same addiction like heroin does.
                      and the limited supply does not mean you are not addicted to endorphins.
                      biochemical there is do difference between the endorphines and heroin both act on opioid receptors.
                      you also can inject endorphin no difference to heroin.
                      its like Anadamid for the body there is no difference between body own anadamid and marijuana/THC
                      You cant get addicted to it since the body (normally) is not able to release or even produce enough to develop a tolerance. Drugs that spoil that balance do so either by developing tolerance in the receptors or decreasing natural production, forcing you to inject more of the drugs just to keep the normal level of endorphin stimulation.
                      I never heard of injectable endorphin end even if it existed, the effects would be just as bad as heroin abuse. I've never heard of death by endogenous endorphin overdose.

                      No this is not the case because some people just do dangerous risky behavior only to get the endogenous drugs. like skydiving or fixtures in martial arts. there are many athlete addicted to endogenous drugs.
                      and i don't count sport for health i only count dangerous sport.
                      You get endorphin and adrenaline kicks from sport for health too.
                      Yes I really do have a problem with this. But for me it makes no difference lying or ignorance i can not find out the truth. how to find out the truth to distinguish lying and ignorance?
                      Yes there is a probability that I'm wrong. But how to make sure to always be on the right side? There is no save way to check this out.
                      is a rhetorical competition there is no room for doubt. and you can not distinguish between ignorance and lie.

                      but You can give me tips how to manage this.
                      Quit drugs. Psychoactives are known to make psychological problems worse. Otherwise, I'm not in a position to treat you. Get professional help.
                      DGE is the official German institute for truth about food/drink.
                      So you have an institute for truth in Germany? Wow!

                      This is pure ignorance (for me you are a liar here) because all studies proved wrong with that claim. All meta study and control study prove this claim wrong.
                      I only said there was a study and you confirm it, so don't call me a liar. Also the effects of wine weren't contributed to the alcohol itself, but other stuff in it. I didn't follow up on that, so it might very well be BS, like most of the epidemiological studies.
                      just stop this bullshit all positive effects about alcohol are just Publication bias bullshit!
                      What, this isn't statistical - its a known fact. Small doses of alcohol lower blood pressure, calm down and increase response times. The last part is why you shouldn't drive even after a small drink.

                      read my response i can easily prove you 'ignorance'
                      [...]
                      with a good drug and health management Alcohol is more dangerous than crystal.
                      but I can not recommend both.
                      Good management? WTH are you talking about? Which meth addict ever thinks about managing anything except getting a fix?
                      Are you saying it is easier to get addicted to alcohol than meth? Are you saying it is easier to OD alcohol than meth?
                      Do please prove my ignorance. Like really prove prove. Pretty please.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        Do please prove my ignorance. Like really prove prove. Pretty please.
                        thats a easy job for example this:

                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        Good management? WTH are you talking about? Which meth addict ever thinks about managing anything except getting a fix?
                        no drug management isn't the managing getting the next fix.
                        drug management is about get the right dosage of upper and downer and sleep-drugs in the right time.
                        an example for this is you start the morning with "coffee" coffee is a upper like crystal then you go make your work and after the hard work in the evening you drink a beer beer is a downer like Valium and then you need sleep to get power for the next day then you use hops/valerian tea or a sleep pill GHB/GBL is the same but the most professional version because 100% deep sleep phase.

                        drug management is also to use drugs like HT5 or Tryptophan or L-dopa to fill up the Serotonin and Dopamine storage after the use of drugs like MDMA or speed.
                        because MDMA/SPEED/LSD and so one all of these drugs burn Serotonin,Dopamine,Endorphin.

                        this means drug managment is the knowelege about fill up your storage of
                        neuro-transmitters and vitamines and its also the knowelege about what drug is needed to make a balance between different kind of drugs.

                        GHB/GBL (downer)is the balancing opposite part to SPEED(upper) for example.

                        your Ignorance is you think the nazis burn there high-class airman with crystal meph. no they use "drug managment" to compensate the negative parts of crystal.

                        in fact you can manage all side effects and you can manage the addiction.

                        1 example of drug addiction management is IBOGA IBOGA is well known as the strongest substance on earth in the point of : addiction breaking effect

                        you can try heroin and if you become a addiction you only have to take 1 single pill of IBOGA.

                        Iboga break the addiction and makes the heroin useless over a period of time 1 dosage block it complete for over 5-6 weeks. and it vaccinate you for the future permanent.
                        (no joke you can read it on wikipedia and its proved many times)

                        Iboga is against the law in the USA to because its a drug like LSD.

                        another example is you can break an alcohol addiction with LSD


                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        Are you saying it is easier to get addicted to alcohol than meth? Are you saying it is easier to OD alcohol than meth?
                        .

                        yes its easier to get addicted to alcohol than crystal because you get alkohol everywere in the food store and in the gasoline station and in the disco and in the bar everywhere.
                        also the alcohol addiction is hard to manage because in fact it isn't a addiction like the one to heroin the alcohol addiction is more a damage there are no good management and no good therapies.
                        heroin is healthier and more easy to therapy and the drug management is easier.
                        alcohol addiction isn't fun.

                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        What, this isn't statistical - its a known fact. Small doses of alcohol lower blood pressure, calm down and increase response times. The last part is why you shouldn't drive even after a small drink.
                        the life expectancy decreases with every glass of alcohol
                        you don't get any benefit if you cure blood pressure with alcohol.
                        use GBL instead it lower the blood pressure and extend your life time.
                        it makes no sense to use alcohol as a calm down medicine because GBL does the same without any unhealthy effect in fact it extend your life time.

                        no reputable doctor would use alcohol as medicine for these cases.


                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        I only said there was a study and you confirm it, so don't call me a liar. Also the effects of wine weren't contributed to the alcohol itself, but other stuff in it. I didn't follow up on that, so it might very well be BS, like most of the epidemiological studies.
                        there are many studies payed by the alcohol industry.
                        but there are not a single valid study with the claim that alcohol is healthy.
                        the wine Studies are proved as invalid!

                        what if you know this all? but you claim the wrong just because of your rhetorical movement ?
                        then you're a liar?

                        if you don't know it and you also do the wrong claim then you are a ignorance person ?

                        in my point of view there are only 2 valid options liar or ignorance.
                        if i think you are smart i call you a liar if i think you are dump i call you a ignorance.

                        "I didn't follow up on that, " you should follow up on that because these studies are invalid. they count former alcoholics as people who have never drunk alcohol. thats the hoax.

                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        So you have an institute for truth in Germany? Wow!
                        YES sounds funny. DGE is the institute only for food-Healthy-truth
                        that's the food that you can sue in the social welfare for example.
                        the welfare for food is calculated based on the DGE list.


                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        Quit drugs. Psychoactives are known to make psychological problems worse. Otherwise, I'm not in a position to treat you. Get professional help.
                        you get it wrong. i do not have a drug problem. for example i quit drinking alcohol i also quit in smoking marijuana i also quit in triking coffee because of my chronic sickness(histamin-intollerance syndrom i do have this for life time its genetic caused).

                        i only use GBL as medicine as a:
                        pain-killer,
                        inflammatory inhibitors,
                        life extender,
                        sleeping drug(because i do not have day/night rhythm because of the liver damage caused by the histamin-intollerance syndrom)

                        i like LSD to but in theory its not healthy for me because histamin-intollerance syndrom also affect the break down of Serotonin this means LSD distributes serotonin and i can not break it down.
                        in practice i use DAO-enzyme-pills to compensate this.

                        also i do not have any "psychological problems"

                        and "Get professional help" is impossible because i quit the health insurance.
                        in Germany its impossible to quit health insurance. I'm proud of it!

                        I'm a death man walking i give a fuck about our "health system"

                        I'm my own doctor!

                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        You get endorphin and adrenaline kicks from sport for health too.
                        sure i do chop wood to get my body movement


                        Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                        You cant get addicted to it since the body (normally) is not able to release or even produce enough to develop a tolerance. Drugs that spoil that balance do so either by developing tolerance in the receptors or decreasing natural production, forcing you to inject more of the drugs just to keep the normal level of endorphin stimulation.
                        I never heard of injectable endorphin end even if it existed, the effects would be just as bad as heroin abuse. I've never heard of death by endogenous endorphin overdose.
                        man you speak with a person with histamin-intollerance-syndrom i can not break down histamin and tyrosin and serotonin all of them are DRUGS!

                        tyrosin=drug
                        serotonin=drug
                        histamin= neuro tramsmitter (drug)

                        and you talk shit about "normal level" be sure "death by endogenous endorphin overdose." is possible.
                        Last edited by Qaridarium; 12-01-2011, 11:16 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post

                          no drug management isn't the managing getting the next fix.
                          drug management is about get the right dosage of upper and downer and sleep-drugs in the right time.
                          an example for this is you start the morning with "coffee" coffee is a upper like crystal then you go make your work and after the hard work in the evening you drink a beer beer is a downer
                          You got me wrong. For an _addict_ drug management is very difficult to the point he would only think about getting the next fix. An addict is unable to manage it the way you describe without help, end even with help, he cannot be trusted to follow a regime. Addiction is a very, very strong and cruel force.

                          in fact you can manage all side effects and you can manage the addiction.
                          So why is there so many addicts out there, on the streets, losing their jobs, their families, lives. None of them wants it. If it's so easy, why are they dying?
                          1 example of drug addiction management is IBOGA IBOGA is well known as the strongest substance on earth in the point of : addiction breaking effect
                          I didn't know about it. Excuse me if I remain skeptical until more consensus materializes.

                          yes its easier to get addicted to alcohol than crystal because you get alkohol everywere in the food store and in the gasoline station and in the disco and in the bar everywhere.
                          also the alcohol addiction is hard to manage because in fact it isn't a addiction like the one to heroin the alcohol addiction is more a damage there are no good management and no good therapies.
                          heroin is healthier and more easy to therapy and the drug management is easier.
                          alcohol addiction isn't fun.
                          Do not try to bullshit: it's easier to obtain alcohol (even though meth is easier to consume), but once obtained, is it easier to get addicted to, than meth?
                          Heroin addiction is one of the strongest and most destructive of all addictions. You won't convince me it's healthier or better than alcoholism.
                          Besides there is an inconsistency in your argument: before you mentioned, you can cure alcoholism with LSD.

                          the life expectancy decreases with every glass of alcohol
                          you don't get any benefit if you cure blood pressure with alcohol.
                          use GBL instead it lower the blood pressure and extend your life time.
                          The information I saw said the negative effects start at about a glass per day. Not just a glass.
                          I never said alcohol should be used to cure blood pressure, but it is a fact that while affected by small amount of alcohol, you run lower risk of getting a heart attack, due to the lower blood pressure.
                          Actually, how many studies are there about negative effects of GBL? Can you be certain that it doesn't have adverse long-term effects?
                          what if you know this all? but you claim the wrong just because of your rhetorical movement ?
                          then you're a liar?
                          if you don't know it and you also do the wrong claim then you are a ignorance person ?
                          "I didn't follow up on that, " you should follow up on that because these studies are invalid. they count former alcoholics as people who have never drunk alcohol. thats the hoax.
                          I didn't make a wrong claim. I mentioned a study not knowing it was debunked. I didn't know how reliable it was, but I've heard about the results from several sources.
                          I admit ignorance on that account. Thanks for bringing up that info.

                          YES sounds funny. DGE is the institute only for food-Healthy-truth
                          that's the food that you can sue in the social welfare for example.
                          the welfare for food is calculated based on the DGE list.
                          You dont get it: they can't possibly know the truth about foods. They can only truthfully report the state of current research, which changes as often as new research subjects manage to grow. Using the word 'truth' about any governmental institution can only be cynical.
                          you get it wrong. i do not have a drug problem.
                          [...]
                          also i do not have any "psychological problems"
                          [...]
                          I'm my own doctor!
                          This is a geek site and most of us probably have some kind of socialization limitation.
                          You seem quite extreme though. It is visible that you have problems with interaction with other people and you admitted to it. Those are caused by psychological dysfunctions and are aggravated by use of psychedelic drugs (probably by blurring out the reality). You being your own doctor is an example of how much you are separated from the reality.

                          man you speak with a person with histamin-intollerance-syndrom i can not break down histamin and tyrosin and serotonin all of them are DRUGS!
                          and you talk shit about "normal level" be sure "death by endogenous endorphin overdose." is possible.
                          Your original statement was something like "heroin is okay because it is identical to endogenous endorphin" and "drug addiction doesn't matter because you are already addicted to endorphin".
                          You say you are sick: you have a substance dysfunction and you are suffering because of that.
                          Injecting addictive drugs causes similar and far more severe dysfunctions. It causes a disease. It is a disease. Stop spitting crap and admit you were wrong for once.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                            maybe but why there are so many alcoholics ?
                            Because alcohol has been used for millenia. It is too far rooted in our culture to get rid of. If it was new it would probably never be accepted at such a scale.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              You got me wrong. For an _addict_ drug management is very difficult to the point he would only think about getting the next fix. An addict is unable to manage it the way you describe without help, end even with help, he cannot be trusted to follow a regime. Addiction is a very, very strong and cruel force.
                              you are right here. but in fact they don't get professional help.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              I didn't know about it. Excuse me if I remain skeptical until more consensus materializes.
                              ok i help you
                              this is a documentation about the traditional use of iboga:

                              and this is a documentation about iboga therapy against addiction:

                              Iboga just beat heroin.
                              here a news about Ibogaine and a clinic use this drug against addiction

                              this is the plant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernanthe_iboga the chemical is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine
                              the anti addiction aid organization giving Iboga away for free to heal addicts is 'sacrament of transition' http://sacrament.kibla.si/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Transition they give away iboga for free they don't want money.

                              Iboga also works against crystal meth.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              So why is there so many addicts out there, on the streets, losing their jobs, their families, lives. None of them wants it. If it's so easy, why are they dying?
                              i think its a educational problem problem they don't know 'sacrament of transition' to call for an Iboga help.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Do not try to bullshit: it's easier to obtain alcohol (even though meth is easier to consume), but once obtained, is it easier to get addicted to, than meth?
                              i don't know it. if i need to choose for myself i will stick with crystal meth.
                              because I'm 100% allergic against all alcoholic products because of yeast fermentation. yeast do have the highest dosage of histamine in nature.
                              so i bet on crystal meth! I'm sure its healthier than Alcohol.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Heroin addiction is one of the strongest and most destructive of all addictions. You won't convince me it's healthier or better than alcoholism.
                              sure heroin is healthier than Alcohol this is a multiple time proved fact!
                              maybe i found another ignorance here on your side try to read the wikipedia article about heroin! and yes its also better to heal than alcohol addiction.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Besides there is an inconsistency in your argument: before you mentioned, you can cure alcoholism with LSD.
                              no both are true but the clue is in the detail.
                              the chance to heal alcohol addiction with LSD is 50% (talk-therapy is 10%)
                              the chance to heal heroin addiction with Iboga is 80%+

                              in fact heroin beat alcohol in "therapy" and the chance to stay clean.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              The information I saw said the negative effects start at about a glass per day. Not just a glass.
                              no there is a second condition for the 1 glass if you drink every day 1 glass it also hurt you. this means 1 glass per week is ok.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              I never said alcohol should be used to cure blood pressure, but it is a fact that while affected by small amount of alcohol, you run lower risk of getting a heart attack, due to the lower blood pressure.
                              you don't have a life extant if you lower the blood pressure with alcohol.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Actually, how many studies are there about negative effects of GBL? Can you be certain that it doesn't have adverse long-term effects?
                              the problem is there are no unhealthy long-term effects because its the only substance on earth with an known 10%+ life expand effect.
                              this means you can not measure to determine a unhealthy effect.
                              sure there are negative effects for example you can fall into a dependence but the Withdrawal symptoms are not critical and harmless.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              I didn't make a wrong claim. I mentioned a study not knowing it was debunked. I didn't know how reliable it was, but I've heard about the results from several sources.
                              I admit ignorance on that account. Thanks for bringing up that info.
                              hey yes a agreement nice
                              so i won your personal prove price? "Do please prove my ignorance. Like really prove prove. Pretty please. " so i really prove your ignorance

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              You dont get it: they can't possibly know the truth about foods. They can only truthfully report the state of current research, which changes as often as new research subjects manage to grow. Using the word 'truth' about any governmental institution can only be cynical.
                              you are right its cynical but in fact if i call you a liar in germany and you sue me i win in court just because the DGE covers my argumentation.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              This is a geek site and most of us probably have some kind of socialization limitation.
                              You seem quite extreme though. It is visible that you have problems with interaction with other people and you admitted to it. Those are caused by psychological dysfunctions and are aggravated by use of psychedelic drugs (probably by blurring out the reality). You being your own doctor is an example of how much you are separated from the reality.
                              its 100% proved that i have all my dysfunctions long time before i ever try any drug. drugs actually make it better for me
                              or do you claim that i was a drug user at kindergarten ?
                              all my bad behavior are already recorded in the kindergarten and before.
                              thats because of my 'Amine oxidase' enzyme problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine_oxidase

                              this means your point is clueless.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Your original statement was something like "heroin is okay because it is identical to endogenous endorphin"
                              This statement is 100% right and its the truth.
                              your 'golden bullet Overdose' argument is only Theoretical because in practice you only use that dosage if you want make a suicide or its a accident. in both situations heroin is a innocent.
                              Heroin is not guilty for your incompetence and heroin is not guilty for your suicide.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              and "drug addiction doesn't matter because you are already addicted to endorphin".
                              This statement is also 100% valid and its the truth. everybody is already addicted to endorphin. there is biochemical do difference It forces you to behave. It makes no difference between a man how goes into a whorehouse pays money for sex and the orgasm gives him endorphin and a man payes the same money to a dealer for heroin.
                              Both is a external addiction payed with money Whore or Dealer there is no difference. the biochemical processes are the same.

                              its 100% paying for a drug.
                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              You say you are sick: you have a substance dysfunction and you are suffering because of that.
                              Injecting addictive drugs causes similar and far more severe dysfunctions.
                              not really there are no known drug based on 'enzyme' with enzyme dysfunctions.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              It causes a disease.
                              Alcohol causes a disease heroin for example does not cause a disease.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              It is a disease.
                              then the behavior of wanting sex is also a disease because biochemical its just the need for drugs.

                              Originally posted by misiu_mp View Post
                              Stop spitting crap and admit you were wrong for once.
                              I can not find the point were I'm wrong sorry.

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                              • #90
                                German Pirate party decides to try to legalize all drugs

                                German Pirate party decides to try to legalize all drugs

                                http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Bundesp...gsportal/PA299

                                translated with Google translate :

                                "
                                From time immemorial intoxication and addiction are part of every culture. This fact requires, without prejudice to deal with the consumption of stimulants and its consequences, to avert a pragmatic drug policy, harm to the company.

                                The previous, repressive, is primarily aimed at abstinence drug policy obviously failed: it created a black market, who knows neither youth nor consumer protection and ignores the rights of non-drug users.

                                The pirates follow a policy based on scientific facts addiction. Based on this addiction policy are:

                                First Comprehensive, non-ideological education
                                Each of lust and desire can lead to dependence. This loss of control over their own needs should be avoided by prevention earliest. Risk-sensitive basis, hedonistic behavior, knowledge about effects, side effects and possible health effects not only of undocumented stimulants, but from everything that can lead to addiction in some way. This knowledge needs to be taught from childhood.

                                Second Personal responsibility and pleasure culture
                                Only to reflect their needs and who has learned to resist peer pressure, can enjoy self-confident and self-determined. Enjoyment and noise are part of our society and meet basic social functions. Respect for the individual's free choice and confidence in his ability to reason and his zest for life is the prerequisite for establishing a health culture that understands the use of noise as a creative opportunity.

                                Third Youth and consumer protection
                                The consumption and the purchase of consumable items must be legalized. Otherwise the state is unable to intervene to regulate. Due to the prohibition, the state steals from the negligence of responsibility, leaving its citizens without an uncontrollable black market youth and consumer protection. Stimulants could finally legalized subject to State quality control. Upon acquisition of stimulants is a leaflet available in the future, the information about the type and dose as well as offers of help.

                                4th Aid for vulnerable consumers
                                Not everyone can deal responsibly with stimulants. Dependent and dependent endangered and need our understanding of low-threshold access to all levels of addiction. The pirates will harm reduction measures such as emergency drug syringes and allow checking. The nationwide expansion of the network of advisory and support facilities will not only alleviate the greatest distress, but family members and co-dependent involve. Health and health systems are relieved.

                                5th Protection of non-drug users
                                State regulation should be confined to sanction behavior that harms third parties. The state has the eighth freedom rights of all citizens. General Workplace Drug Testing reject the pirates. You must be limited to hazardous occupations and activities. Similarly, drug policy may not affect the blinders medical treatment of pain patients.

                                These five points are the basis of a drug policy, which is centered on a responsible human being and not illusory goal of abstinence. Considering then the billions saved by terminating the prosecution and the billions that can be generated through appropriate taxation of luxury goods, one can assume that this pragmatic drug policy can be implemented in detail.
                                "

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