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Germany export 4MWh E-Energy although 8 Nuclear-Power-Stations turned off

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  • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    if you compare it to water power you are a liar. even wind in a smart grid is better.

    and the high price for 67,30€ per 1kwh!

    no the Goverment pay studies to calculate the cheapest and best solution.

    and a smart grid +wind power beats the 67,30€ per 1kwh nuclear power shit.
    Geez, you are stubborn and don't understand common sense. I am comparing to wind power, period. I am saying wind power is practically useless for the cost and power output including the efficiency. It would be fine if people would be honest about the cost and inefficiency but many aren't.

    I'm comparing in explicit terms as the wind is not always going. All the reports show that wind is inefficient. You said the 'Government pays for studies...' LOL! So, your proof is Government studies?!? What a joke. That's a horrible argument. Talk about bias. The Government will get results of whatever they want.

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    • breaking news FCKW/CFC/HCFC cools down the north pole extremely (-80C)

      http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/n...789603,00.html

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorofluorocarbon

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tuke81 View Post
        I hate when you write carbon dioxide CO2, It should be write CO2(not pointed to any individual).
        really i give a s.it about that. i spell it co2 without any difference.




        Originally posted by tuke81 View Post
        Worst known greenhouse effect is on Venus. The main fears of CO2 emissions is that it will eventually increase global warming in state when permafrost from Siberia melt and release too much methane gas to atmosphere. If the greenhouse effect reach the state where methane is the most effecting greenhouse gas on atmosphere, cooling planet will be very difficult(one option is to explode enough nukes to get lot of dust to atmosphere and coming nuclear winter should do the trick or erupt from super volcano).
        you are wrong its a matter of fact that the north poole is cooling down right now because of the CFC/HCFCs cooling effect.

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        • Originally posted by Panix View Post
          Geez, you are stubborn and don't understand common sense. I am comparing to wind power, period. I am saying wind power is practically useless for the cost and power output including the efficiency. It would be fine if people would be honest about the cost and inefficiency but many aren't.
          the German EEG LAW force wind millers to pay there energy for 0,05 and after 10 years 0,03
          this means you have a high price difference for an storage power plant solution.


          Originally posted by Panix View Post
          I'm comparing in explicit terms as the wind is not always going. All the reports show that wind is inefficient. You said the 'Government pays for studies...' LOL! So, your proof is Government studies?!? What a joke. That's a horrible argument. Talk about bias. The Government will get results of whatever they want.
          the German studies always very accurate. because they all go over free foundations and the free foundations get the money FIRST! and there are other studies from non gov paying with the same result.

          "All the reports show that wind is inefficient."
          its all about price because of that the germans only pay 0.03-0.05 by LAW

          and you don't understand the smart grid they use water power plants as batteries for the wind energy!

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          • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            you are wrong its a matter of fact that the north poole is cooling down right now because of the CFC/HCFCs cooling effect.
            Are you nut? CFC/HCFCs destroys Ozone layer, one of the most crucial shield that earth has againts UVA/B/C radiation that come from sun.
            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0405102202.htm
            http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/03/o...n_2476223.html

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            • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              and you don't understand the smart grid they use water power plants as batteries for the wind energy!
              You don't seem to be able to understand that maximum power available there is less than 10% of need.

              You also don't seem to understand that companies currently make money when selling nuclear power for ~50€/Mwh, so arguing cost to be 1000 times that is just silly.

              You also don't seem to understand that it doesn't make any difference what law says for price to be. If law says too low price, nobody is producing energy. Simple.

              Price of producing has to be lower than selling price for somebody to do that.

              All this should be common sense. So I have to agree with few earlier comments about trying to talk some sense to you.
              Last edited by virta; 10-04-2011, 09:03 AM.

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              • I have a lot of respect for Germans for trying to produce energy alternatively. If they succeed it will be a revolution for energy producing all over the world. If they fail, bad luck for the Germans.

                I think the coal burning is stupid but so is cutting atoms in the half too. I hope they will get over either of those as fast as possible.

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                • Originally posted by bear View Post
                  I think the coal burning is stupid but so is cutting atoms in the half too. I hope they will get over either of those as fast as possible.
                  Yes, It's a sad truth that real choice is between these two. And you really have to choose. Windpower will improve, but it will always be just secondary way of making electricity. Hydropower can currently make maybe 10% of global need. And as need is getting higher, it's importance is getting smaller. Everything else is a decade or two away to make real impact on energy market.

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                  • Originally posted by tuke81 View Post
                    Are you nut? CFC/HCFCs destroys Ozone layer, one of the most crucial shield that earth has againts UVA/B/C radiation that come from sun.
                    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0405102202.htm
                    http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/03/o...n_2476223.html
                    LOL NO im Serious ! all climate studies show a cooling effect of CFC/HCFC on the poles north and south.

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                    • Originally posted by virta View Post
                      You don't seem to be able to understand that maximum power available there is less than 10% of need.
                      hey wow you prove that you can make 10% of the energy with wind without building storage power plants.
                      and with Methane synthesis storage power plants you can drive 100% with wind!

                      Originally posted by virta View Post
                      You also don't seem to understand that companies currently make money when selling nuclear power for ~50/Mwh, so arguing cost to be 1000 times that is just silly.
                      you are wrong here because the companies do not sell the nuclear power in the same conditions as the company selling wind or solar power.
                      same condition mens: insurance with a total of 100% liability +nuclear waste disposal
                      if you calculate it right nuclear power is the worst and expensive of all energies !

                      Originally posted by virta View Post
                      You also don't seem to understand that it doesn't make any difference what law says for price to be. If law says too low price, nobody is producing energy. Simple.
                      you don't get it... they producing energy for this price!

                      Originally posted by virta View Post
                      Price of producing has to be lower than selling price for somebody to do that.
                      producing price is 0.05 for wind and selling price is 0.30

                      producing price for solar is 0,16 and selling price is 0.30

                      producing price for heat and power with gas is 7 selling price is 0.30

                      producing price for nuclear(same condition: insurance 100% liability +waste disposal) is: 100 and selling price is 0,30


                      Originally posted by virta View Post
                      All this should be common sense. So I have to agree with few earlier comments about trying to talk some sense to you.
                      i do not agree in arguments which I can clearly disprove.

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                      • Originally posted by bear View Post
                        I have a lot of respect for Germans for trying to produce energy alternatively. If they succeed it will be a revolution for energy producing all over the world. If they fail, bad luck for the Germans.

                        I think the coal burning is stupid but so is cutting atoms in the half too. I hope they will get over either of those as fast as possible.
                        Sure the Germans will fail in the world war 3........ i think its the same like in the past Hitler use Biomass to Liquid to make Fuel for his army and the hole world don't like the idea of nazis with unlimited fuel.

                        maybe the world war 3 starts just because the germans do not fail in produce energy alternatively.

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                        • Originally posted by virta View Post
                          Yes, It's a sad truth that real choice is between these two. And you really have to choose. Windpower will improve, but it will always be just secondary way of making electricity. Hydropower can currently make maybe 10% of global need. And as need is getting higher, it's importance is getting smaller. Everything else is a decade or two away to make real impact on energy market.
                          No there are more alternatives you can drive a methane synthesis with wind power and use it as a fuel for cars and storage power plants!

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                          • Oh, there are so many errors in the arguments here that I had to log in and respond...

                            Firstly, when you are talking about power output, there are three units that you need to look at:

                            kW - kilowatt, 1000 Watts which is 1 unit of electricity. Usually equated to a 1 bar electric fire.
                            kWt - thermal kilowatt. I.e. the thermal power generated by a power station
                            kWe - electrical kilowatt. I.e. the electrical power generated by the power station

                            Now, if we ignore the first one (it isn't really needed for this discussion) the ratio between kWt and kWe shows just how efficient a thermal power station is. All thermal power stations operate at a thermal efficiency of between 30-40%. Nuclear power stations are no exception. They operate at a thermal efficiency of between 30-40%, not 4%. :lol:

                            Qaridarium: Do you actually know anything about radiation and dose? We are surrounded by radiation all of the time. The legal limit in the UK for a member of the public is 1milliSv from all sources of radiation in a power plant. To put this into perspective, the average dose received by the UK population is 2.5milliSv per person per year. In practice, the doses to the public form any station in the UK are much lower than even the limit I quoted above.

                            Now, flying... 1milliSv = 1000 microSv correct? On a plane trip (for 5 hours) the dose rate expereinced by this guy was 3.8microSv/hr. To exceed the legal limit for a member of the public, you would have to fly for 250 hours (give or take). Last time I looked, an airline pilot or member of the cabin crew weren't classed as radiation workers, so flying for 1000 hours per year (a guess, but probably a good one) means that they are nearly 4 times over the legal radiation limit! When was the last time a plane fell out of the sky because the pilot got 'radiation poisoning'

                            I also noticed that you said that nuclear plants have no clinical usage, where do you think the radioisotopes for chemotherapy come from?

                            Oh, and solar power has a maximum power output of 1.4kW per metre. That is the maximum flux we receive from the sun. So, to provide the power of a modern nuclear station we would need 1,200,000 sq metres of solar panels. (Modern EPR has an electrical power output of 1700MW, divide that by 1.4kW to get the size of an equivalent solar station). This also assumes that the panels are 100% efficient and the sun is directly overhead.

                            What about wind energy? Well, that is only 30% efficient due to variability in the wind velocity. The wind doesn't always blow and when it does, it doesn't always blow at the most optimum speed for the turbines.

                            Tidal is the best option for green power imo, it is reliable, safe, but again, it is even more expensive than nuclear and will cause vast changes to the local ecosystems (barrages, large pools etc) due to reduction/changes in the tidal flows.

                            For a thermal plant, nuclear is really the best option. Yes there is the waste problem to think about and deal with, but green power options suffer from low energy density and low efficiency. They are also expensive.

                            If you've got any questions, let me know and I'll try and answer them.

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                            • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                              LOL NO im Serious ! all climate studies show a cooling effect of CFC/HCFC on the poles north and south.
                              That's true, but do you really know what does it mean? Please read this:
                              http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/22...oling_20c.html

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tuke81 View Post
                                That's true, but do you really know what does it mean? Please read this:
                                http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/22...oling_20c.html
                                i know. but thats not the tropic. the tropic is climate heats up and thats a lie because of this !

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