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Germany export 4MWh E-Energy although 8 Nuclear-Power-Stations turned off

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    germany do not plan a backup based on gas.
    They certainly do. Why do you think there are so many ties between Germany and Putin? Do you think the Nordstream gas pipeline is being built just for decoration?

    germany plan a smart grid backup based on HGÜ(highvoltage-direct current-cable) in an European grid with Sweden and Norway to use there water power plants in the fords as backup.
    Which is not going to help, since Sweden has already pretty much maxed its buffering capacity.

    one of this cable is: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Cable
    and they plan the biggest ever build to Norway http://www.norger.biz/norger/
    the first expansion stage will have 1,4GigaWatt and 11 TWh
    Baltic cable is basically a 'feel good' boondoggle, it's not going to contribute significant capacity. And I'll believe the second one when I see it.

    Comment


    • #62
      http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110713-36277.html

      http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15065249,00.html

      http://www.miller-mccune.com/environ...-detour-36292/

      http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/1...o-coal-plants/

      Yeah, ok, if you say so.

      Other countries don't participate in the targets such as China so you are just making claims that don't mean much.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        Please, learn physics.
        o no sorry... this was my professional for 5 years. 'Information electronics technician' and 'electrician'
        really this is not the problem.

        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        If you want to talk about German export in terms of total energy exported, then the units you want to use are TWh (Terra-Watt hours).
        "vier Milliarden Kilowattstunden" 4 giga kilo watt hora ok here is my failure.

        i fail to add the kilo to the giga. kilo+giga is terra ok you are right its 4TWh in 6 month means 8 TWh in a year.


        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        Watt-hours are units of _energy_ and 4GWh is a small amount - about the energy in 10 tons of gasoline.
        you also fail here because you compare exothermic watt vs electrician watt.

        4GWh in gasoline is only 1,3 GWh in electrician watt. because of the efficiency


        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        Watts are units of _power_
        no you are wrong watt is the unit of power in seconds. means 1 watt is 1watt second.
        I learned this in my training
        energy without any time is another stuff its "E" or "Joule" http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energie
        so your words are also right for your self : "Please, learn physics."




        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        and so the correct number is 4GW (which is the same in all languages, since it's standard a SI unit) which means 4 Giga-Watts.
        no i just fail sorry. its 4TWh.






        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        And soon will need more as energy consumption is going to rise with introduction of electric automobiles and transition from coal to electricity.
        sure but they have much more they need the maximum peak is 92TWh and the power plants are 150TWh



        Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
        Besides, 4GWt out of 150GWt is marginal. It's well within normal variations in power generation (because of plant maintenance, variability of wind/solar power, etc).
        no sorry i just fail its 4TWh export and 150GW power plants.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
          Hey Vincent, you live in Australia?
          <offtopic stuff>Sadly, not yet (which is why my English isn't all that great ).

          I'm currently living in the Netherlands. When I finnish compSci I want to get out of here.

          My sister went to Aus for a year and wants to get back. A friend of my went there on vacation with a few friends and one of them scored a GF, bought a house and now lives there. A friend of a friend of mine went on a world-trip and has set up his office there. I've heared to many stories about how absolutely awesome it is there and still read some on FB.

          Here in the Netherlands the weather is shitty. The people here are so materialistic, that there is this a new sport where everyone needs a better tv than the neighbours; you need to at least have a full HD tv, even if you don't have a BluRay player and an HD reciever. People in Austrailia don't seem to care all that much about clothes, but here American brands are at least four times more expensive than in the US itself (due to 'must-have-or-you're-nothing-culture). The people here are realy arogant. When you have a normal conversation with a girl, there is an automatic assumption that you're at least wanting to jump her, and if that's not the case then you must absolutely be gay with a 100% certainty (not that I have anything against that, but the chicks here are very boring and ugly, compared to other European countries.). Oh, and there is this entire culture of stupidity. That means that if you are to get an 8/10 on a test, then it's "OMG NERD!!!!".

          It just sickens me. I have too many reasons not to like this country and too many reasons to want to go to Aus. The only thing that I don't like is the fact that Aus is sencoring the internet, but the pro's outwiegh the cons by far.</offtopic stuff>

          PS: Plus; they got Mnt. Dew, Subway, awesome skateparks, cheap Subaru's and Hardstyle parties there now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiruW...eature=related)
          Last edited by V!NCENT; 10-01-2011, 04:13 AM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            <offtopic stuff>Sadly, not yet (which is why my English isn't all that great ).

            I'm currently living in the Netherlands. When I finnish compSci I want to get out of here.

            My sister went to Aus for a year and wants to get back. A friend of my went there on vacation with a few friends and one of them scored a GF, bought a house and now lives there. A friend of a friend of mine went on a world-trip and has set up his office there. I've heared to many stories about how absolutely awesome it is there and still read some on FB.

            Here in the Netherlands the weather is shitty. The people here are so materialistic, that there is this a new sport where everyone needs a better tv than the neighbours; you need to at least have a full HD tv, even if you don't have a BluRay player and an HD reciever. People in Austrailia don't seem to care all that much about clothes, but here American brands are at least four times more expensive than in the US itself (due to 'must-have-or-you're-nothing-culture). The people here are realy arogant. When you have a normal conversation with a girl, there is an automatic assumption that you're at least wanting to jump her, and if that's not the case then you must absolutely be gay with a 100% certainty (not that I have anything against that, but the chicks here are very boring and ugly, compared to other European countries.). Oh, and there is this entire culture of stupidity. That means that if you are to get an 8/10 on a test, then it's "OMG NERD!!!!".

            It just sickens me. I have too many reasons not to like this country and too many reasons to want to go to Aus. The only thing that I don't like is the fact that Aus is sencoring the internet, but the pro's outwiegh the cons by far.</offtopic stuff>

            PS: Plus; they got Mnt. Dew, Subway, awesome skateparks, cheap Subaru's and Hardstyle parties there now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiruW...eature=related)
            i think its all about drugs... you just need to consume more even more drugs

            you have to consume more alcohol to be compatible to the other humans!
            you should consume MDMA also to make you soft and social
            also GHB/GBL should be your daily basic not for the night for the morning!
            if you make a test? just get the drugs first and get your social compatible result and life a good life without and problems!
            Then you will get your chicks easily and your many many many friends will bring beer to your personal party!
            To drink and consume drugs with you to the bitter end then you will be happy and then you know what friends really are!

            a real friend dies with you on a golden bullet heroin !

            Comment


            • #66
              Recreational drugs were invented for the people who were afraid to look after themselves and who were afraid to do something about their problems and afraid to chase their dreams, who end up not wanting to be confronted with their self-created reality, where each shitty day is a follow-up of the previous shitty day and a precursor to the next shitty day.

              Comment


              • #67
                "4MWh": that's enough to run a high end desktop for 1 year, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4+mwh+%2F+year
                I assume that someone got the units wrong somewhere.

                here is a good table of relative doses from various things. basically you get radiation from a lot of places all the time. big doses are very harmful, no doubt about that.
                https://www.xkcd.com/radiation/

                the effects of low doses are much less understood. radiation policy is based on the (unproven) linear not threshold model, which is a worst case and assumes that the body has not defence against radiation. most studies of people who have received doses a small amount over background show no increase in health problems.

                if you want zero health risk from energy production then the only answer is no energy. http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/dea...gy-source.html even wind and solar kill more people than nuclear. and fossil fuels kill a stupid number of people, each there are fires and explosions at refineries, oil rigs, pipelines, mines etc, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...line_accidents , even just this year in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14968378 , http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15083044 , http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-13660365 and much worse elsewhere http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14879401

                air pollution kills millions of people per year.
                http://www.who.int/mediacentre/facts.../en/index.html

                Comment


                • #68
                  Silly conversation (silly enough for me to register and join ). There is no real economical alternative for nuclear power. One country can decide to not build more nuclear power or even shutdown reactors they have. But this tends to lead to buying nuclear produced power from abroad.

                  You can plan to build more fossil fuel plants, but sooner or later that leads to energy price going up. Politicians have then two choices. Look industry and jobs moving abroad or start buying nuclear produced power from abroad.

                  Fact is that energy use per capita is and will be rising. And nuclear energy is only real way to cope with that. Small amounts of hydropower made in scandinavia (I'm from finland) doesn't really solve anything. Sweden has now been shutting down their nuclear power for 30 years and I guess they continue doing that for next 30 or 130 years. And increase buying nuclear power from abroad.

                  Radiation effects is strange topic. There were 70000 people working in cleaning up Pripyat in 1985. 30 of them died from radiation sickness very soon. After that there is no statistical difference in amount of cancer deaths between them and rest of the population.
                  Last edited by virta; 10-01-2011, 08:23 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Wow ok

                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    <offtopic stuff>Sadly, not yet (which is why my English isn't all that great ).

                    I'm currently living in the Netherlands. When I finnish compSci I want to get out of here.

                    My sister went to Aus for a year and wants to get back. A friend of my went there on vacation with a few friends and one of them scored a GF, bought a house and now lives there. A friend of a friend of mine went on a world-trip and has set up his office there. I've heared to many stories about how absolutely awesome it is there and still read some on FB.

                    Here in the Netherlands the weather is shitty. The people here are so materialistic, that there is this a new sport where everyone needs a better tv than the neighbours; you need to at least have a full HD tv, even if you don't have a BluRay player and an HD reciever. People in Austrailia don't seem to care all that much about clothes, but here American brands are at least four times more expensive than in the US itself (due to 'must-have-or-you're-nothing-culture). The people here are realy arogant. When you have a normal conversation with a girl, there is an automatic assumption that you're at least wanting to jump her, and if that's not the case then you must absolutely be gay with a 100% certainty (not that I have anything against that, but the chicks here are very boring and ugly, compared to other European countries.). Oh, and there is this entire culture of stupidity. That means that if you are to get an 8/10 on a test, then it's "OMG NERD!!!!".

                    It just sickens me. I have too many reasons not to like this country and too many reasons to want to go to Aus. The only thing that I don't like is the fact that Aus is sencoring the internet, but the pro's outwiegh the cons by far.</offtopic stuff>

                    PS: Plus; they got Mnt. Dew, Subway, awesome skateparks, cheap Subaru's and Hardstyle parties there now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiruW...eature=related)
                    Well, Im in year 12 VCE (High School/College in Victoria) atm, my dad actually recently got an email from a denmark education minister about using technology in Mathematics/General Education in College, and it was saying that Victoria (Australia), Denmark and Netherlands are the best in the world at doing that.

                    Im planning on doing software engineering next year, I hope you will really like it when you come over, it is a great place, with lovely beaches Plus the chicks are pretty good ;P

                    Apart from that, the internet censoring has not actually come any closer to happening, no one really thinks about it that much atm.

                    On topic: I still think nuclear power is the most viable medium (few hundred years) term solution to our upcoming lack of fossil fuels, and the easiest way to reduce carbon emission. Its also the onyl one we would have any hope of implementing in a reasonable amount of time.

                    Also, it doesnt help Germany that alot of there tax payers money is going to supporting the EU. My mother is German, my father British, so I have absolutely nothing against Germany, I've been there and think it is a beautiful place

                    And if any one could build proper energy sources, nuclear or others, Germany could probably do it best

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Surely we should all use horses and things then, because trains etc could explode and kill everyone on them.....

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ssam View Post
                        "4MWh": that's enough to run a high end desktop for 1 year, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4+mwh+%2F+year
                        I assume that someone got the units wrong somewhere.

                        here is a good table of relative doses from various things. basically you get radiation from a lot of places all the time. big doses are very harmful, no doubt about that.
                        https://www.xkcd.com/radiation/
                        hi i'm happy you found this but you are not the first one

                        the right number is 4 Terra Watt Time/Hora 4TWh/4TWt in 6 month.
                        means 8 Terra Watt Time in 1 Year.

                        and 8 Terra Watt time is a big number isn't it?


                        Originally posted by ssam View Post
                        the effects of low doses are much less understood.
                        you are right. but plants for example grow faster if they get low doses.



                        Originally posted by ssam View Post
                        radiation policy is based on the (unproven) linear not threshold model, which is a worst case and assumes that the body has not defence against radiation. most studies of people who have received doses a small amount over background show no increase in health problems.
                        you are right here to its unproven. in Germany its proved that very tiny dosage makes child ill they get blood cancer.
                        this means 30km around a nuclear power station must be a child free zone
                        some countries do have this 30km zone. Germany have not.
                        in my knowledge you can only call a nuclear power station save if there is a empty 30km zone around there and its not Uran/plutonium based and its fully driven by robots.

                        But the Humans are not so clever to make it so.

                        Originally posted by ssam View Post
                        if you want zero health risk from energy production then the only answer is no energy.
                        LOL you are wrong.. just build a solar updraft tower.




                        Originally posted by ssam View Post
                        http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/dea...gy-source.html even wind and solar kill more people than nuclear. and fossil fuels kill a stupid number of people, each there are fires and explosions at refineries, oil rigs, pipelines, mines etc, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...line_accidents , even just this year in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14968378 , http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15083044 , http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-13660365 and much worse elsewhere http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14879401
                        air pollution kills millions of people per year.
                        http://www.who.int/mediacentre/facts.../en/index.html
                        you are right but you don't check some techniques like the solar updraft tower.

                        and yes you can drive a nuclear power plant save if you drive it only with robots and with a 30km empty zone around it and if you drive it without uran/plutonium. Show me this Nuclear power plant ? you can't?

                        thats the problem of the nuclear power companies they give a shit about safety!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by virta View Post
                          Silly conversation (silly enough for me to register and join ). There is no real economical alternative for nuclear power. One country can decide to not build more nuclear power or even shutdown reactors they have. But this tends to lead to buying nuclear produced power from abroad.
                          LOL are you blind? this tropic is about shut down 8 Nuclear reactors and export 4TWt !!!!

                          with this number Germany can shut down two more nuclear reactors.




                          Originally posted by virta View Post
                          You can plan to build more fossil fuel plants, but sooner or later that leads to energy price going up. Politicians have then two choices. Look industry and jobs moving abroad or start buying nuclear produced power from abroad.
                          the plan is not to do that. the plan is to build a european smart grid one of this projekt is this:http://www.norger.biz/norger/ Norway to Germany and the Sweden to Germany one http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Cable
                          and the overall European smart grid: http://www.smartgrids.eu/
                          Germany plan to drop coal and gas and nuclear.
                          the plan is to consume Norwegian water power and Sweden water power and use them like a battery for German Wind power.
                          Germany spend now 25 000 000 000€ on new cables and 400 000 000 000 on green power power plants.






                          Originally posted by virta View Post
                          Fact is that energy use per capita is and will be rising. And nuclear energy is only real way to cope with that. Small amounts of hydropower made in scandinavia (I'm from finland) doesn't really solve anything. Sweden has now been shutting down their nuclear power for 30 years and I guess they continue doing that for next 30 or 130 years. And increase buying nuclear power from abroad.
                          Radiation effects is strange topic. There were 70000 people working in cleaning up Pripyat in 1985. 30 of them died from radiation sickness very soon. After that there is no statistical difference in amount of cancer deaths between them and rest of the population.

                          i'm sure you don't understand the smart grid concept of the EU the plan is to trade green energy around Europe.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
                            On topic: I still think nuclear power is the most viable medium (few hundred years) term solution to our upcoming lack of fossil fuels, and the easiest way to reduce carbon emission. Its also the onyl one we would have any hope of implementing in a reasonable amount of time.
                            you don't want pollute co2 because it warms the earth up.
                            But your nuclear power plant do have a 4% efficiency means it warms the Earth up for 96%
                            means a 2MW nuclear power station produce 48 MW exothermic heat.

                            are you really so naive ? you can not cool down the erath if you pollute 48MEGA-WATT heat for every Nuclear Power plant!

                            Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
                            Also, it doesnt help Germany that alot of there tax payers money is going to supporting the EU. My mother is German, my father British, so I have absolutely nothing against Germany, I've been there and think it is a beautiful place
                            no i think the germans should pay more! the german should pay for an KFW-Bank in greek to help them out.


                            Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
                            And if any one could build proper energy sources, nuclear or others, Germany could probably do it best
                            sure i also think so.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                              you don't want pollute co2 because it warms the earth up.
                              But your nuclear power plant do have a 4% efficiency means it warms the Earth up for 96%
                              means a 2MW nuclear power station produce 48 MW exothermic heat.
                              That's just stupid reasoning. What ever heat we are creating is lost to space. IF we don't build up co2 to atmosphere that reflects heat back. If we build that co2 there it really doesn't matter how much energy we use. Sun is source of heat, not humans. co2 changes climate. Shouldn't be that hard.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by virta View Post
                                That's just stupid reasoning. What ever heat we are creating is lost to space. IF we don't build up co2 to atmosphere that reflects heat back. If we build that co2 there it really doesn't matter how much energy we use. Sun is source of heat, not humans. co2 changes climate. Shouldn't be that hard.
                                i can prove you wrong very easy: if we put a Tsar-Bomb every 35km around the world then the heat is lost in space?

                                or we are all death ? i think whatever you do all energy is never lost in space means we are death.

                                and this is the same for nuclear reactors if you pollute 48 MEGA-WATT heat for every single nuclear power plant you don't need co2 to heat the earth up the nuclear power plants do the same without CO2!

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