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Germany export 4MWh E-Energy although 8 Nuclear-Power-Stations turned off

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  • Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    True that. Most Germans do not want nuclear power. But in this topic I see a lot of non-Germans (Americans?) for nuclear power in Germany. What do they think? That Germans are slave people who are not allowed to decide for themselves?
    Rising CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is going to affect us no matter where we live. And Germany, with this extremely stupid move, is single-handedly undoing 10 years of effort towards CO2 emissions reduction. Every country tried to reduce CO2, and due to irresponsible idiots in Germany we are all back to a square one. Don't you think everyone in Europe has a right to be angry over this?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
      Q, you are using a technique of debate known as Gish Gallop. That is, instead of considering the presented information before writing a reply, you are meeting every post with an unending stream of bullshit and misinterpreted information, in hope of tiring the opponent into leaving.
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

      As such, I think there is little point in responding to you, except maybe for the benefit of other people reading this thread. So I'll pick one thing from your wall of text:

      Practically nothing is insured against "worst possible accident", which is what I think you are referring to here. For example - hydro dams are not insured against catastrophic failure and resulting flood. When it happens, the full cost of remediating the situation is borne by the government. Same for many other industrial objects; many of them are not insured against catastrophic failure. In fact, the mandatory insurance required in the nuclear industry is uniquely high in most countries.

      Informative report about the insurance thing (but you will probably ignore it, because it is from an organization with "nuclear" in its name, and respond with yet another wall of text with links to reputable sources such as German blogs and tabloids which I can't understand):
      http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf67.html
      I ignore your Gish Gallop bullshit because the easy answer is I'm a non-linear person.
      my thinking is not serial and not linear I'm a very complex person.
      If you don't like my style you are free to ignore me.

      and for the insurance problem you don't understand my source its a study they compare the insurance of normal power plants with the nuclear ones.
      the 67,30 is 100% sure. but if you insurance in the most used way in germany you have to pay 0,16 per 1kwh to have the same moderate insurance like normal power plants.
      and now the problem... the complete price of solar power is 0.16
      the nuclear power fan boys claim 3,5cent per 1kwh calculate it its more expensive.
      and again this does not cover the nuclear waste disposal but all other power plants pay 100% for the waste disposal.
      this means nuclear power is out of range of any commercial usage in Germany.

      in other countries the insurance level is not so high than the insurance level in germany this means other countries can drive nuclear power plants in a moderate price range.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
        You just refuse to understand anything which goes against your preconceived notion of "nuclear bad, booo".

        Do you actually understand this chart at all? It shows: before shutdown, a lot of export; after shutdown, mostly import. So the average over 6 months will show some net export. But this does not reflect the present day - the average includes almost 4 months of nuclear power plant operation. Do an average since the shutdown and you will see net import. Germany being a transit country has nothing to do with this because the chart contains net power flow (e.g. export minus import). If you can't understand this simple point then everyone is just wasting their time talking to you.
        just tell me why do you waste time on me? its pure ironic that you are so stupid in your own world rules.

        and you really think the old 8 crap nuclear power plants get a hit?
        they mostly stand still the last 2 years because of small nuclear accidents.
        you can read this in german media or wikipedia.
        in fact they just cut down the worst ever nuclear power plants.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
          Rising CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is going to affect us no matter where we live. And Germany, with this extremely stupid move, is single-handedly undoing 10 years of effort towards CO2 emissions reduction. Every country tried to reduce CO2, and due to irresponsible idiots in Germany we are all back to a square one. Don't you think everyone in Europe has a right to be angry over this?
          you don't get it germany reduce CO2 the last 20 years and they will reduce CO2 the next 30 years to.

          this is valid because the most CO2 is heating and other stuff not power plants.

          they prefer to get heat recovery air ventilating systems and insulated glass and isolated walls.

          but yes you don't get it.

          Comment


          • In my point of view merkel (cdu)+FDP have nearly provoked a civil war because of there exit of the nuclear exit last year.

            They just stop this after Fukushima because they realize if not we do have civil war in Germany.
            The Germans are really angry about their government.
            German special forces of police hurt children on class excursion without weapons on the stuttgart 21 demo last year. and they shot out eyes from people without weapons.

            the German are also stuned because the German special forces of police also hurt "green" people in demos very hart.

            thats why we now have a green government in Baden-Wattenberg. because they can not accept CDU/FDP any longer.

            even the nuclear Castor transport in 2008 nearly end in a civil war the police chased "green" people in the forest and wounded them and the police The police had to almost all police units from across Germany to call together i remember some numbers like 10 000-20 000 police mans.
            its was the longest nuclear Castor transport run ever in history of the hole world! because the zivil people fight on every single meter from franc to gorleben....



            if you want have a civil war in Germany you just have to build a new nuclear power plant.

            Comment


            • try to fight 40 000-50 000 germans on the street:



              and this is the same every year.. and not just because of fukushima

              this was the same 2009 and 2007 and 2006 and 2005.

              fukushima dosn't matter.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                the fact is that in germany is a EEG law
                As I said. With real market price (<70€/MWh) of electricity and solar panels this newer happens.


                0.16€/kw I'm ready to believe for solar power. And I'm sure that for example german car industry is not willing to pay such premium. I'd like to continue driving german BMW's but it seems that they have to quite soon move to France because of energy price
                Last edited by virta; 10-05-2011, 03:46 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  100% insurance
                  There is no such thing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    the nuclear power fan boys claim 3,5cent per 1kwh calculate it its more expensive.
                    and again this does not cover the nuclear waste disposal
                    Wrong. Waste disposal is ~0.3cents of that. That's how much costs to dig it 500m under ground.

                    As I see it, current waste is just a temporary problem. Current nuclear waste with radioactivity for 10000 years will be processed in another type of reactor in few decades. This has outputwaste with active time of just 200-400 years and actually ~20 times better efficiency in using uranium. Russians have been running such test reactor (small, just 600MW ) since 1980.
                    Last edited by virta; 10-05-2011, 03:39 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by virta View Post
                      Russians have been running such test reactor (small, just 600MW ) since 1980.
                      Would you like too see such a reactor in Iran, controlled by Mr. Ahmadinejad ?
                      Or in Somalia, where zivil war makes a regulary operating state near to impossible ?

                      Remember Mr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, or think about the situation in russia 15-20 Year ago, where nuclear material disappears.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dibal View Post
                        Would you like too see such a reactor in Iran, controlled by Mr. Ahmadinejad ?
                        Or in Somalia, where zivil war makes a regulary operating state near to impossible ?
                        When they can afford it and are smart enough to wan't it, they will be smart enough to operate it.

                        These guys tend to have more need for AK-47's. You after all can have few million of those with price of one nuclear reactor.
                        Last edited by virta; 10-05-2011, 04:05 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                          your joke fail and its only a poor try to distract from the trueness: a nuclear power plant do have 4% efficiency.
                          Hmmm, I was thinking about this number last night. You said earlier on in this thread that nuclear power plants reject 96% of their heat into the atmoshphere:

                          Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                          its all about efficiency if you use a woodgas-oven to burn the coal you have 90+ efficiency but a nuclear power plant only do have 2-4% efficiency means the nuclear power plant heat up the earth for 96% !
                          also the coal cool down the earth with CO2 because the plants grow faster also the coal cool down the earth because of the sulfur because the sulfur reflex air light back to the universe also the dirty air makes diffuse light because of the aerosol and this makes grow the plants 20% faster.

                          means you have 96% heating up the world with the nuclear power plant against all positive effects on the coal side.
                          Well, if we have a nuclear power plant with a thermal power output of 3400MWt, and it's electrical power output is 1000MW (see the European DCD for the AP1000 for the figures) then I make that a thermal efficiency of just short of 30%. So, is the AP1000 super efficient, or were you just wrong?

                          The EPR is even better, with a thermal efficiency of 36%.

                          Now, how is that rejecting 96% of the heat into the atmosphere?

                          Oh, and I find the Wikipedia entry on costs of generation fascinating. How much are you really paying for your solar energy? (Note: I trust Wikipedia about as much as I trust the sanity of Quazimodo here, but he seems to believe whatever Wikipedia says. He can't pick and choose what facts to belive can he? Strike that, he will.)
                          Last edited by Shielder; 10-05-2011, 04:58 AM. Reason: Add wiki entry

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                          • Sorry about the double post, but I was too late to add this to my last post.

                            Looking at the figures from ENTSO we can calculate the following (please pardon the formatting):

                            German Electricity imports and exports (in GWe)

                            Period Exported Imported Balance
                            Q1/2011 18557 10463 8094
                            Q2/2011 10045 13698 -3653
                            July 2011 2582 3384 -802

                            Hmmm, looks like Germany is a little reliant on it's European neighbours for electricity all of a sudden. I wonder why?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                              Yeah, instead they're building more coal plants. What a bunch of hypocrites! Ja, Green Energy indeed!
                              People 100+ Km around Fukushima plant and 50 Km around Tchernobyl plant, probably think than Nuclear plant is so greenish energy, and so fun !

                              Look at the green babies in those areas... you will probably like it, far better than coal diseases . Any way coal usage is mostly used during a transition period between nuclear and renewable energy.

                              But even in France, the most nuclearized country (about 70% of electric energy is nuclear), this is only 8% of the total energy used in the country. Oetroleum is the first one, as on other part of the planet (after the sun for growing plants), far less green than coal for domestic usage.

                              But in germany they develop smart grid, wind turbine, push water at top of the hill during low usage time, so a dam can produce energy during peaks, without the need to conserve with dirty batteries. And they have there are ton and ton of local solution for free & renewable energy. The more important, is to reduce consumption, with a better isolation, and so, reducing heating & cooling systems (the most consuming ones far behind plane and road (not on rails) transportation. Other way is to use solar oven that works pretty well with moderate sun and other simple green tech. Reduce space between cooked matter and heating surface in other ovens.

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                              • Hmm meanwhile in Finland:
                                http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/...i_2925634.html

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