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Germany export 4MWh E-Energy although 8 Nuclear-Power-Stations turned off

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  • Originally posted by virta View Post
    Show the facts not just some random numbers.
    the fact is that in germany is a EEG law and this law makes your solar power plant to an return to investment engine in a rime range for 8 years.

    after that the solar power plant is just for profit. but i don't calculate profit if i calculate the costs.

    if you calculate the profit you calculate ((20MWh*160€)+(20MWh*30€))/40=95€ (thats because the EEG law pay 20 years 160€ and after that 30€)

    now we know germany pay by law 95€ now we calculate the profit 95€-32€= 63€

    solar power plant owner makes 63€ profit on solar power by LAW!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Shielder View Post
      If it is that bad, then the international media would be all over it. Look at Fukushima, how many have died because of the radiation? 0. that's right, no-one. Yet the media are still all over it. How often do we hear about the 25,000 people killed by the tsunami? Almost never. Which is the biggest disaster, the power plant or the tsunami?
      http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschl...t-1627922.html

      you are simply ignorant

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Obscene_CNN View Post
        Yes Germany may export 4MWh of energy but they may still import 20MWh. Its common for countries to exchange power back and forth so just exporting 4MWh is meaningless. You see statistics showing both net export vs net import to be able to draw any conclusions.
        just for the record i fail at the number its 4TWh... 1000times larger

        Comment


        • Originally posted by virta View Post
          I was talking about producing electricity for 50€/MWh when you started comparing who makes larger number, which I clearly won by 1. Or 4.
          also the merit order effect prove you wrong: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit-Order#Auswirkungen

          the german pay 3,3 billion € but they earn 5 billion € because of this effect!

          so you are proved wrong multiple time

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            Virta, he can't. Any time he's starting to lose the argument he starts raving about how Adolf Hitler was sooo great and Germany is teh winnahs at everything!
            real numbers :

            "↑ Erfahrungsbericht 2007 zum Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz. auf der Webseite des Bundesministeriums für Umwelt, Naturschutz und Reaktorsicherheit."

            "↑ a b Frank Sensfuß, Mario Ragwitz: Analyse des Preiseffektes der Stromerzeugung aus erneuerbaren Energien auf die Börsenpreise im deutschen Stromhandel. auf der Webseite des Bundesministeriums für Umwelt, Naturschutz und Reaktorsicherheit. 18. Juni 2007."

            "↑ Frank Sensfuß, Mario Ragwitz: Analyse des Preiseffektes der Stromerzeugung aus erneuerbaren Energien auf die Börsenpreise im deutschen Stromhandel. auf der Webseite des Bundesministeriums für Umwelt, Naturschutz und Reaktorsicherheit. 18. Juni 2007, S. 16."

            "↑ Georg Erdmann: Kosten des Ausbaus der erneuerbaren Energien, Studie im Auftrag der Vereinigung der Bayerischen Wirtschaft e.V., München, 2011."

            also i can prove that the costs of solar power are not the market price of solar power !
            thats because you calculate it on 40years but you gut point of return of investment after 8 years.
            so you only calculate 8 years and you get the cost number of 40 years.

            even if your solar power plant is your own you only calculate to return of investment in germany you pay nothing for that because of the KFW-credit from the KFW-Bank and after the return of investment you have free energy for ZERO money to pay!

            he just fail to understand the difference of profit and costs the real costs are 32€ per 1MWh but the profit of 63 by LAW makes it more expensive than the 32€

            just make profit against the law "Communism" and then you get your 32€ per 1MWh.

            he also fail to understand that the 50€ per 1MWh is for nuclear power plants already after the depreciation time of 40 years.

            he also fails to understand that the 50€ per 1MWh is without nuclear waste disposal.

            he also fails to understand that the 50€ per 1MWh is without insurance of the 100% full damage sum.

            overall he fails complete!

            but they the German Government don't care about unqualified and incompetent people.

            They quit nuclear Power if you like it or not.

            Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            Oooo, here we're redefining the internationally accepted measurement of efficiency. I could take into account all of the energy in a litre of petrol, but then we'd only have an efficiency of less than 0.0000000000000001% (remembering E=mc2)
            your joke fail and its only a poor try to distract from the trueness: a nuclear power plant do have 4% efficiency.

            Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            Name them then. Provide links, quotes, peer review papers. Until I see those, you're the one spouting bullshit.
            i do this multiple time here in this forum threat. try to read the forum.

            Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            Sorry, I meant brachytherapy and radioisotope therapy. My mistake. Well spotted.
            I'm probably not as stupid as you think.
            Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            I'm puzzled by your anger at subsidies for nuclear power (last time I looked, there weren't any) but you're fine with a 'limited by law' cost of wind power. How do you think teh electricity companies make a profit from selling wind energy? That's right, subsidies. In the UK, they are paid when they generate, and when they don't. How is this not a subsidy?
            the German subsidy for wind power is 0€ ZERO€
            in germany we have a Pay as you go model the EEG law is a "Pay as you go" model.

            Originally posted by Shielder View Post
            I'm puzzled by your anger at subsidies for nuclear power
            the German pay Subsidy to nuclear power because its the only power source without 100% insurance and its the only power source with a gov payed waste disposal.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
              About cancers around nuclear power plants: This kind of study has been done in many countries (USA, UK, France, Sweden...) and only the German one showed a correlation. The authors of the German study said that radiation cannot be the cause, as there was no extra radiation around the NPPs. Furthermore, a similar correlation was found in places where NPPs were once planned but none were built. (Last link is very informative.)
              http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/05May/Pa...ia-report.aspx
              http://nuclearpoweryesplease.org/blo...er-or-does-it/
              http://talknuclear.ca/index.php/2011...of-the-debate/

              There is evidence that childhood leukemia is caused by infective diseases. When service towns are built near NPPs and other large industrial installations, it increases children's exposure to infections.
              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00047-0003.pdf
              you really know more than the Germans NOT!

              here we go: http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersac...z/asse533.html

              they still don't know why.

              but there is another funny fact about nuclear waste the nuclear shit kills unborn girls:

              http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/33/33715/1.html

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
                About the main claim of the article, that Germany is an exporter of power despite axing 20% of its generation. Another poster already said this is average data since January, and Germany became an importer since the shutdown. But if anyone still has doubts, look at the chart in this article:
                http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP...y_3108111.html
                LOL do you read the threat? NOT!

                Germany is an transit land of energy but Germany export more energy than they import..

                and its 4TWt of export

                Comment


                • That's not the problem with Q's sources or assertions. He uses his beloved Government as sources. The same liars and crooks that hype the EU and Euro. These same crooks cook the figures for their own benefits. There's profits to be made even if the energies are inefficient and costly. The subsidize the renewable energies with taxes and high trade costs. It's about money and contracts. Just print up the money when needed.

                  Q just won't be objective looking at the German government since he loves Merkel and the Greens so much.

                  All the non-European or in other words, independent reports indicate the costs and inefficiencies of non-nuclear power. It's satisfactory to phase out nuclear power if that is what is decided but it's misleading to not factor in the costs and inefficiencies of the other renewable energies. Especially wind, which is absolutely inefficient in all areas including cost for what you get.

                  With all the criticism and spin about nuclear power, the reliability of the renewable energy options are omitted and neglected. Sure, electric power grids are favorable but how reliable are they? How much backup do you need and what do you use as such?

                  Germany is so confident in these that they are BUILDING 26 COAL PLANTS!

                  http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15065249,00.html

                  http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110713-36277.html

                  http://www.nationalreview.com/planet...greg-pollowitz

                  http://motorcitytimes.com/mct/2010/0...ts-in-germany/

                  Merkel and the Greens are disgusting hypocrites.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    The subsidize the renewable energies with taxes
                    LOL you are a Liar nothing more Germany do have 0 subsidizes on renewable energies.
                    the EEG-LAW is a Pay as you go model. and not a subsidize.
                    really i know you lie because i know you know its not a subsidize.


                    Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    Q just won't be objective looking at the German government since he loves Merkel
                    i don't love merkel because merkel drop the first nuclear exit.
                    she is just a flag in the wind and she is already doomed thats for sure.

                    Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    He uses his beloved Government as sources.
                    for example the 67,30€ per 1kwh KILO Watt studies isn't a gov one
                    and i only need a single source from non gov with an valid argument to prove you wrong!

                    Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    Sure, electric power grids are favorable but how reliable are they? How much backup do you need and what do you use as such?
                    they use as backup: wood-gas-power plants, biomass to liquid to diesel power plants,methane synthesis +gas power plants,water power plants, water driven storage power plants,they also want timing the industries to only produce energy hungry stuff on time with wind also as a negative power plant.
                    they also want to force by law washing machines and dishwashers and refrigerators as negative power plants with timer function.

                    "reliable" its a matter of fact that more advance technical stuff also means its more reliable because of the more backups.

                    Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    Especially wind, which is absolutely inefficient in all areas including cost for what you get.
                    and again... a lie... there is no subsidize for wind plus the EEG law limits the cost to 0,05€ per 1kwh.
                    please stop this its really stupid.

                    Originally posted by Panix View Post
                    Merkel and the Greens are disgusting hypocrites.
                    you fail here to because the SPD is also against nuclear power and the "The left" also.
                    this means 9x% of all germans are against YOU!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      you fail here to because the SPD is also against nuclear power and the "The left" also.
                      this means 9x% of all germans are against YOU!
                      True that. Most Germans do not want nuclear power. But in this topic I see a lot of non-Germans (Americans?) for nuclear power in Germany. What do they think? That Germans are slave people who are not allowed to decide for themselves?

                      Watch out, next thing the Americans are going to invade Germany and install a pro-nuclear puppet regime!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
                        True that. Most Germans do not want nuclear power. But in this topic I see a lot of non-Germans (Americans?) for nuclear power in Germany. What do they think? That Germans are slave people who are not allowed to decide for themselves?

                        Watch out, next thing the Americans are going to invade Germany and install a pro-nuclear puppet regime!
                        You're just as stupid as they are then.

                        I don't know about them but I'm not arguing pro or con or for/against. That is my philosophy. I am saying that many people in this thread are disputing the numbers. There are those presenting the costs as very high despite Q's ramblings about it's cheap. That just isn't the case. One only has to use common sense. If it was so cheap and no concern over backup energy, why is Germany manufacturing and adding over 20 coal plants?!? Does that make any sense whatsoever? People just have to use common sense but I believe they're too damn stupid! If these renewable energies were 1) cheap enough; 2) reliable and 3) efficient, you would not need the absolute worst energy source in terms of CO2 and cost. Coal is one of the worst for both.

                        All report show as the costs being high.

                        http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=6992

                        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...578974178.html

                        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...nter-says.html

                        http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/i...hp/t53618.html

                        If there is any interpretation that the prices are low, it's because the Government is incurring the cost and passing off in terms of taxes. But, reports suggest that the energy prices are going up.

                        When you factor in how much debt and money the Germans are committing to bailouts and Euro promotion, you can surely see that these prices will eventually skyrocket unless kept low through artificial means. Germans are fools if they think these Governments are doing them a favor.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
                          True that. Most Germans do not want nuclear power. But in this topic I see a lot of non-Germans (Americans?) for nuclear power in Germany. What do they think? That Germans are slave people who are not allowed to decide for themselves?

                          Watch out, next thing the Americans are going to invade Germany and install a pro-nuclear puppet regime!
                          LOL o yes thank you for your post... i really can not understand these nuclear fan boys.

                          maybe they are payed? I'm 100% not payed!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                            why is Germany manufacturing and adding over 20 coal plants?!?
                            there is an technique named coal-solar combination power plant.
                            its true you can use the same technique for both then you save a lot of money.
                            because you only need a generator for 2 power plants and many other stuff its a synergy effect.
                            these technique based on the idea of a thermal concentrating sun solar power plant heating up the water in a tower and expand it in turbines and run the generators.
                            and then in the night you just burn coal to run the same generator and the same turbines.

                            this kind of power pant is extremely cheap and effective.

                            and it runs 24 hours a day and 365 days a year.

                            http://www.heise.de/tr/artikel/Solar...ft-763121.html
                            Last edited by Qaridarium; 10-04-2011, 10:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Q, you are using a technique of debate known as Gish Gallop. That is, instead of considering the presented information before writing a reply, you are meeting every post with an unending stream of bullshit and misinterpreted information, in hope of tiring the opponent into leaving.
                              http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

                              As such, I think there is little point in responding to you, except maybe for the benefit of other people reading this thread. So I'll pick one thing from your wall of text:

                              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                              he also fails to understand that the 50€ per 1MWh is without insurance of the 100% full damage sum.
                              Practically nothing is insured against "worst possible accident", which is what I think you are referring to here. For example - hydro dams are not insured against catastrophic failure and resulting flood. When it happens, the full cost of remediating the situation is borne by the government. Same for many other industrial objects; many of them are not insured against catastrophic failure. In fact, the mandatory insurance required in the nuclear industry is uniquely high in most countries.

                              Informative report about the insurance thing (but you will probably ignore it, because it is from an organization with "nuclear" in its name, and respond with yet another wall of text with links to reputable sources such as German blogs and tabloids which I can't understand):
                              http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf67.html

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                                LOL do you read the threat? NOT!

                                Germany is an transit land of energy but Germany export more energy than they import..

                                and its 4TWt of export
                                You just refuse to understand anything which goes against your preconceived notion of "nuclear bad, booo".

                                Do you actually understand this chart at all? It shows: before shutdown, a lot of export; after shutdown, mostly import. So the average over 6 months will show some net export. But this does not reflect the present day - the average includes almost 4 months of nuclear power plant operation. Do an average since the shutdown and you will see net import. Germany being a transit country has nothing to do with this because the chart contains net power flow (e.g. export minus import). If you can't understand this simple point then everyone is just wasting their time talking to you.

                                Comment

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