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  • #61
    For some of us:

    Originally posted by ninez View Post
    Apple sucks for usability??? lol.. that's laughable dude, and nothing more than your personal opinion, and that also tends to be the attitude of people who've never actually owned a Mac. i would actually have to say the opposite, and i know i'm not the only one. Take Adobe CS5 (and any previous versions) they are much nicer to use on a Mac than in Windows. on a MS machine, when editing graphics/photos you can't even be sure that the color is 'true" to how it will look on paper/billboard/etc. Color management is superior on a Mac, and is correct. this isn't true for windows or linux...

    many pro-audio suites such as Protools - i would never ever ever - use in Windows, i have, but in comparison - on a Mac, it's much more robust, and reliable in a "production" environment. That is why sooo many designers/artists/musicians/etc PREFER Apple to microsoft. Many of these types of users, are not necessarily super-tech-savvy or extremely computer literate - but even if they are tech-savvy, they still prefer a platform that works as expected, and that doesn't introduce problems (like viruses, amlware,etc) that users like myself don't want to deal with and shouldn't have to when we are being creative and want to stay productive... i only want to deal with that crap if i am being paid to @ work...no windows on any of my machines at home (other than win7 in vmware). My Mac and linux machines only

    cheerz
    And for some of us who want to do image/video editing, having a Dual CPU PC with a High end nVidia Card for Cuda Acceleration (and OpenCL), a PC will costs less that 1/2 a Mac Pro, and you can still have colour correct Non apple (Or apple) monitors attached.

    Mind you I am running a Hackintosh for 3D Modelling/Rendering as well as Photoshop and Premier Pro/AE, so I guess I just proved you right

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    • #62
      The problem with Macs:
      -Unreliable hardware
      -Crappy build quality cases
      -Shitty service
      -Shitty price
      -Slower than Gallium3D drivers
      -Old GCC
      -Malware (yes they do)
      -Break down just as frequently as Windows (macfixit.com exists for a reason)
      -Totaly inconsistant UIi

      Now that we've got that out of the way; This is about the freakin interface.
      What moron thought he could win an argument with hardware pics?

      WTF...

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
        Then I'm sorry, this explains everything nicely. However, keep in mind there's stable and usable KDE, too. It's going to stay stable even after Qt5 arrives....
        It's disputable, but such tasks should be just simplified and the root privileges should be still requirement, imho.
        i had this in mind : to use kde , i wait with my current gnome3 and f15 to see how it turns with kmod-catalyst .
        for the root thingies [that does not protect so much if "telnet user" knows the password ] i think it should be a disabled option that should/could be started later after install by users .
        linux has only and so much the "security argument" in mind and so it is "so much not used" .... windows7 shows a box about security but does not ask all times for passwords or forces user to install some third scripts like "beesu" to have full power on the os

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        • #64
          Telnet is horrible. Use SSH instead and the password problem goes away

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          • #65
            Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
            linux has only and so much the "security argument" in mind and so it is "so much not used" .... windows7 shows a box about security but does not ask all times for passwords or forces user to install some third scripts like "beesu" to have full power on the os
            I prefer to type the password from time to time and then do everything smooth (without the need of confirmation) rather than confirming every step like in windows. In example:

            Linux:
            sudo apt-get install yakuake k3b smplayer kadu kget... → password → enter

            or without the repo:

            download an app → single click on it (KDE) → enter password
            or download more apps → sudo dpkg -i 1 2 3 4... (or *.deb) → enter password

            Windows:
            download an app → click twice on the executable → confirm → [next → next...] → install repeat the same for the other four apps.

            I consider windows way is also much worse in security aspect, because it's much easier to cheat "a click" rather than guess the user's password.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
              The problem with Macs:
              -Unreliable hardware
              -Crappy build quality cases
              -Shitty service
              LMFAO, 10 years straight they have been #1 in service and have rated the highest in reliability. The cases are also extremely well built, far better then most PC's out there.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                LMFAO, 10 years straight they have been #1 in service and have rated the highest in reliability. The cases are also extremely well built, far better then most PC's out there.
                And for the same price as an entry level mac, you can purchase a PC with twice the ram and a CPU that outperforms it from Dell or HP.

                What a bargain. Overpriced, under-performing hardware, but the service is spectacular! And the Cases OMG! The cases! Like butter...

                Mac fans are silly.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  LMFAO, 10 years straight they have been #1 in service and have rated the highest in reliability. The cases are also extremely well built, far better then most PC's out there.
                  Lenevo ThinkPad T-series. There. In your face. Sony Vaio for the more price aware.

                  Now about that service. Even if you get it, you need to send it Apple, pay for that, have it refurbished and hope you get your own Mac back, then 70 days later (or something extreme like that) you'll get it back. Maybe it is then working.

                  Dude, whatever...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    SECURITY always comes at the expense of CONVENIENCE

                    Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                    linux has only and so much the "security argument" in mind and so it is "so much not used" .... windows7 shows a box about security but does not ask all times for passwords or forces user to install some third scripts like "beesu" to have full power on the os
                    You don't even know how much you contradict yourself. If the infrastructure that lets you temporarily gain administrator privileges only when you need them (that's how UNIX works) weren't already there, you could never install any "third party scripts like beesu to have full power on the os" in the first place. In fact, you simply couldn't touch anything owned by root at all. This means that whatever third party stuff you decided to install was merely for convenience and completely unnecessary.

                    This

                    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                    such tasks should be just simplified and the root privileges should be still requirement
                    is so damn true because of this

                    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                    I prefer to type the password from time to time and then do everything smooth (without the need of confirmation) rather than confirming every step like in windows.

                    I consider windows way is also much worse in security aspect, because it's much easier to cheat "a click" rather than guess the user's password.
                    In other words - the Winblow$ way is arguably less/more cumbersome, but fundamentally insecure. Who cares that lazy and incompetent morons (please note that this isn't meant for you) won't like it? Let them get hit by all sorts of malware, because that's what they're asking for.

                    As a matter of fact, the root privileges requirement is extremely sane and based on a completely valid reason, because lusers have no business whatsoever screwing around with stuff that affects everyone! On the contrary - users must be prevented from ever touching system's internals because they typically lack necessary expertise to get things right!
                    The philosophy is that the system administrator sets stuff up so that the user can work and doesn't need to touch anything but the look and feel of his account and the applications he's using. After all, that's where tho whole concept of users and administrators comes from.

                    Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                    for the root thingies i think it should be a disabled option that should/could be started later after install by users.
                    Can you see why that is be a big problem already?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      it looks like linux will never go up to its current record high = 5% : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

                      the more funny is "users must be prevented from ever touching system's internals "
                      i do not know if i should not say yes : because linux kernel is real shit , that i try to get working when i want to make it work with my pcs . by the way writing that "you contradict" linux philosophy that let user recompiles the kernel .

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                        it looks like linux will never go up to its current record high = 5% : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
                        On the desktop? I still disagree.

                        the more funny is "users must be prevented from ever touching system's internals "
                        i do not know if i should not say yes : because linux kernel is real shit , that i try to get working when i want to make it work with my pcs . by the way writing that "you contradict" linux philosophy that let user recompiles the kernel .
                        Should and elevator user be allowed to service an elevator without proper knowledge? The point is just using an elevator, right?

                        Developers, however, should be able to. What is your point?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                          it looks like linux will never go up to its current record high = 5% : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

                          the more funny is "users must be prevented from ever touching system's internals "
                          i do not know if i should not say yes : because linux kernel is real shit , that i try to get working when i want to make it work with my pcs . by the way writing that "you contradict" linux philosophy that let user recompiles the kernel .
                          This crap is getting old. I'm sick and tired of people who keep bitching about something they don't even grok. I gave it a shot, but we got nowhere - you're desperately stuck in your ways and violently refuse to accept any other perspective. The more we try, the more you sound like just another troll. This conversation's over. Have a nice day.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                            it looks like linux will never go up to its current record high = 5% : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

                            the more funny is "users must be prevented from ever touching system's internals "
                            i do not know if i should not say yes : because linux kernel is real shit , that i try to get working when i want to make it work with my pcs . by the way writing that "you contradict" linux philosophy that let user recompiles the kernel .
                            erm wrong again (you didn't follow my advice... wikipedia is free you know ....) linux is the most used kernel on the planet aka your wifi router, embeded devices, industry machinery, android phones and tablets, meego, servers, supercomputers(absolute king here), bigger supercomputers, in fact if i don't remember wrong NSA and NASA love it too, etc ..

                            now kde/gnome/e17/etc + some base GNU tools are not as popular in distros as windows is in a product in the x86 desktop world(not that much of a big market compared to mobile phones for example).

                            about your linux kernel is shit rant, well i have years that beside compiling my kernel to activate RT capabilities i don't remember ever needing to fight through firmware or any other low level function of the kernel (note that i know how a kernel works and what should be compiled internally and what should be a module) and taking in account that many millions of ppl (companies, enthusiast, etc) seem to not need it unless they are actually developing something, my guess is you are doing something very wrong here.

                            don't play the "my weird hardware" card cuz well i tried this for years on sparc/arm/ and x86 and my current pc is very beasty high end too and still no issues here. (all this don't include my only nightmare FGLRX but that is a crappy driver issue not a kernel one).

                            understand something linus or anyone in the linux community sought of linux kernel as "hey let make this easy enough for my grandma so she can compile a kernel whenever she wants" (again read wikipedia and find what opensource means ) but a means for profesionals, students (of computer science or alike) and hobbist(with the appropiate tech level) to share/learn/benefit from each other works in a public way bla, bla bla.

                            having the ability to compile sources doesn't have any relation to be a security expert lol, like driving your Suv doesn't make you a mechanical engineer.

                            so yes any Linux/BSD/etc distro or commertial OS for security reason should isolate the user side of the OS from the kernel level functions as much as possible. if you can compile your own distro and remove all the security features, hey good for ya but now you are on your own and if you are a security expert you probably are going to make your own distro to harden and isolate stuff even more that before.

                            before you whine with some half baked concept, MAC and Windows do this too(in a crappy way but they kinda do it ) and installing drivers is not a low level kernel feature before you ask(the low level access is handled by the installer while you watch a cute GUI and click next). the only difference is that you don't have the win32 kernel source files

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by jcgeny View Post
                              i do not know if i should not say yes : because linux kernel is real shit , that i try to get working when i want to make it work with my pcs . by the way writing that "you contradict" linux philosophy that let user recompiles the kernel .
                              The shit is you hardware if you have to do some magic tricks with the kernel to make it work. Btw. installing firmware is a childish task in Kubuntu:

                              sudo apt-get install [choose a firmware here].

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                                Btw. installing firmware is a childish task in Kubuntu:

                                sudo apt-get install [choose a firmware here].
                                To be fair, it's not always that easy. I just recently installed Debian 6.0 Squeeze on a new and rather expensive IBM server. Everything worked out of the box _except_ the network interface cards which needed "non-free" firmware. So I had to separately visit debian.org on another computer and download the firmware. Only after that the apt-get magic worked.

                                But I'm not complaining here. I'm simply telling what happened.

                                And of course for Windows users it wouldn't have been anything new because they have to download drivers all the time anyway. But for me it was something new.

                                Btw. this thread is just awesome.

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