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VP8 vs. h.264

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  • VP8 vs. h.264

    It seems that the writing is on the wall for flash. It may take many years, but ultimately it seems to be slowly bleeding while html5 is strengthening. One thing that isn't so clear is whether or not open source video/audio will be the winner. Most html5 news I've read seems to indicate that h264 is winning the codec war. Is there much hope for VP8? Also, I've been wanting to find a good, easy to understand quality and performance comparison between the latest h264 and VP8 encoder/decoders. Does anyone have any information on that?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Prescience500 View Post
    It seems that the writing is on the wall for flash. It may take many years, but ultimately it seems to be slowly bleeding while html5 is strengthening.
    I doubt it, with Flash now supporting GPU decoding. Most people want Flash because it works for them. That's Windows users mostly, but as we all know, those are who really matter.

    Flash will be there for a long time to come.

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    • #3
      I completely agree that flash will remain for a long time. I suspect that new stuff will begin to use html5 by default in a couple years. Stuff that's currently using flash may continue to do so for many years. It's been many years, yet there are still "lots" of divx video out there on the internet. I believe flash will hang on in much the same way.

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      • #4
        Saying that h264 is winning is not even logical. The war hasn't even started since Firefox 4 isn't even released yet and because the promised version of Adobe flash with VP8 (webm) support isn't released yet either.
        Think about it.
        In a few years over 95% of all browsers will support webm (VP8) because they'll be running flash which will support it. Period. That says it all. Don't even need to mention about the (upcoming) native support Chrome, Firefox 4, Opera and on the youtube site, that VLC and other players support VP8/webm, that as soon as next year hw accelerated VP8 enabled players will be popping up.
        It's the same Google case as with Android and Chrome - after relatively slow the product starts outpacing the competition all over. Same here, waiting for webm enabled Flash, wait 6 months for users to move to it and the revolution is winning.

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        • #5
          I like Phoronix, but the one thing that is definitely spoiling its forum and pissing off users is the 1 minute rule. Common Phoronix! you're doing sophisticated cloud-related stuff and you can't solve this little critical annoyance? (/end rant)

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          • #6
            Very true, but I thought that flash will support VP8, but not vorbis or matraska/webm.

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            • #7
              well its not much of a war is it !, not until BBB Finally patches the x264/FFmpeg Encoder to also produce xvp8 output

              You Do Know that the fastest VP8 Decoder is in fact written by these same Developer's right !

              and the fact that most Flash online content is nothing more than your basic x264 Encoded AVC inside a flv/mp4 container right!

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              • #8
                if fact if you bother to actually read the latest http://git.ffmpeg.org/?p=ffmpeg;a=lo...342a22eb63f9d3 and the latest FFmpeg-devel logs you will see that BBB is also instructing <Jumpyshoes> the GSOC Code-in student (that learned with only a few days tuition see the last few weeks if the http://akuvian.org/src/x264/freenode-x264dev.log.bz2 logs) ,that write a lot of new 10bit SIMD for x264 and is also now porting these routines and other assembly to FFmpeg right now to use with Ffmpeg x264, and later xvp8 use.

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                • #9
                  and the fact that most Flash online content is nothing more than your basic x264 Encoded AVC inside a flv/mp4 container right!
                  no doubt, also Nintendo swar and stream will be available also there, I hope

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                  • #10
                    well if you want .sseq or indeed any format not already in ffmpeg then make the patch , they always say "patches welcome" after all

                    as for streaming, right now your probably better waiting on or even helping with kieran's broadcastencoder https://github.com/kierank/broadcastencoder/wiki to be honest, if you really Need/Want an option you cant live without or cant find anywhere else in x264/ffmpeg, he's open to options you might like right now apparently if your quick.

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                    • #11
                      The problem with x264 is that it's using the h264 codec, which is patented.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Prescience500 View Post
                        The problem with x264 is that it's using the h264 codec, which is patented.
                        if your not producing AVC commercially or getting 10.000+ users/viewers then why do you care,its not costing you anything it's not like anything but AVC (and OC old mpeg2)is Already Everywhere in the world right now...

                        ....from your basic STB free to air terestial,SAT,Cable,hand held DVB broadcast's, your IP stat-muxed Pro web content providers, your generic HD BR and even your basic home LAN 'PS3 media server' , and its only going get ever larger coverage as time passes, and OC the worlds SOC (System On a Chip)vendors provide ever more powerful AVC chipsets to play this latest IP AVC SD/HD content every day.

                        perhaps you should have a Good read of this Dark Shikari tech blog http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/ and pay special attention to his practical VP8 analysis.

                        after all it IS his and the other x264/ffmpeg dev's code that HAS actually being written and used Today.

                        other dev,s dont even seem interested in even trying to write anything independent of the existing ffmpeg VP8 code, never mind write something as comprehensive and FAST as ffmpeg code is today, hence why goggle themselves recommends that you read the ffmpeg code as relates to the so called VP8 spec today

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                        • #13
                          Perhaps by the time flash becomes obsolete we'll get a working FOSS player.

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                          • #14
                            Personally, I prefer to use H264 over VP8. Altough it's commercial for corporate users, a common (personal) user like me, can use it without worrying about patents and other things ATM.

                            Furthermore, I think the video quality of VP8 videos is much lower (similar to H264 baseline, at best) than most H264-encoded videos, and H264 encoder (x264) performance is higher than the libvpx one.

                            That's my personal opinion,
                            Cheers

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                            • #15
                              Normally, FOSS versions of proprietary apps take forever to come out. But when they do, they kick the proprietary version's ass.
                              See AMD FOSS vs proprietary drivers for example. When my son's son sees feature complete and perfect FOSS support for my card it will so kick the proprietary version's ass.

                              Therefore, H264 is what we have to live with until a proper matching FOSS version comes along.

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