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  • #46
    How many driver Microsoft did produce?

    Anyone experienced the "quality" of microsoft's video driver before install the official one?
    The only thing Microsoft does.. is bring work made by other companies (the .dll+.inf they impose) and pack in the OS. In the Microsoft's OS there's much less usable stuff than you find in Linux Ubuntu.

    Linux can handle a much larger database driver can handle it better, and allow you to use your hardware with your favorite software (windows instead often forces you to use the program on the CD driver).

    So, why Linux can't handle well the latest driver?

    Microsoft has nothing to do with this, the problem is the hardware manufacturer who do not respect the wishes of their clients: Linux users. Taking money form Linux community of user and spend it in .dll.


    Windows and Linux community should stop to feed such companies: there's no gain to support those who don't give you choices.

    Global market share is 50% with Windows XP. And Microsoft did choose to not give them DX10+ (latest multimedia technologies) or html5 (they need chrome/opera/firefox for this).
    is the right of these people to upgrade their (paid) PC with the latest innovations possible. Free to charge (since they already paid their pc)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post

      Now, before you remark, you should be well aware I've been in the industry developing software for both Windows AND Linux, from the device driver level all the way to end-user applications- for over two and a half decades now. I've got friends and former business associates that include people like Benjamin Lipchak and Nick Haemel (Two of the authors of the OpenGL SuperBible- and my boss and the team lead for when I worked at AMD...) and have done things ranging from industrial I/O device drivers, to scanners, to ethernet drivers, to OpenGL driver work- even on AMD's proprietary driver on the Windows side of things. Some of it on Windows. Much of it on Linux. Some of it free like Utah-GLX. Some of it for-pay like NetEffect's 10Gbit iWarp Ethernet channel adapters or the Windows OpenGL work I was doing to maybe get a shot at helping the Linux side of things at AMD.

      Yes, there are still issues. But NOTHING of your remarks actually talks to the current reality of things in the large.

      Driver support's more an issue of companies either realizing that they need to properly support us fully (Broadcom, AMD, etc...) or at least make drivers available for people out of their own driver efforts (NVidia, Imagination Technologies(yes...), etc...)- and the stuff that doesn't work is because the companies that make the stuff haven't figured it out yet.
      That's impressive what you've done but that doesn't apply here. I only go by EXPERIENCE. Also, whatever you've done is fine but the experience of others suggests something contrary. Do people not read forums?!? Go to any forum, Ubuntu or any Linux-based ones, and you read of hardware not working. Some people know what they're doing, too, and have tried several tasks trying to get hardware to work.

      But, regardless of that, I think HP has the worst hardware even in Windows. This is my third HP printer trying to use specifically for the scanner and I have had failure even in Windows. So, I really don't care about opensource anymore because it's only the most pathetic companies entertaining it. Their products are so horrible, they are trying to get an edge, I guess. HP products are among the worst and their laptops also have a reputation for being garbage. The HP software has remained awful. So, you are right in the respect that some of these companies even have ridiculous software and general operation in Windows.

      But, as far as drivers go, you must not install drivers often because drivers installs in Windows is often horrible. The Linux install is usually better but only if you have experience. The noob will be lost. Fortunately, there's a free support group for that - forums.

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      • #48
        I hope you know I was just being sarcastic in the last paragraph. I totally disregarded your comment about your HP printer, btw, because I will overlook anyone claiming they got their HP printer 'to work.' I can't comprehend why anyone would buy such garbage. The software is bad enough and they haven't improved it for years. The Scanner function failed on all three I tried. Alignment failure and constant paper jams with the Photosmart series. I'm wondering how they're still in business. No wonder Compaq went down the drain after HP acquired them!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Panix View Post
          Do people not read forums?!? Go to any forum, Ubuntu or any Linux-based ones, and you read of hardware not working. Some people know what they're doing, too, and have tried several tasks trying to get hardware to work.
          Using forums to gauge if a product works or not is a poor barometer. People that have issues go to forums, people that don't have little to no reason to visit such threads. Then there is also the fact that HP products are the most popular printing solutions out there. Of course you are going to see more support issues in forums with their products, that is easily accounted for by the sheer number of those devices out there.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            Using forums to gauge if a product works or not is a poor barometer. People that have issues go to forums, people that don't have little to no reason to visit such threads. Then there is also the fact that HP products are the most popular printing solutions out there. Of course you are going to see more support issues in forums with their products, that is easily accounted for by the sheer number of those devices out there.
            You're wrong. It is a barometer. Maybe not the best. But, when a product is flawed, there will be issues and then people who don't take it back or give up, will visit forums because that's their only avenue. So, when the Broadcom 'problem' which was mentioned here was brought up, it was a very popular topic on forums. Every Linux forum would have threads on Broadcom wifi cards.

            You are right that people who don't have trouble are less likely to post on forums but when a product is poor or troublesome, people often post. At least, the general computer user who doesn't pay for support.

            HP products are popular because of marketing and availability. They're everywhere especially at the big box stores and Walmart-type places. It doesn't mean they're any good. Many computer users don't research or know what they're buying. They just get suckered into these products because of the sales teams that promote whatever's on the floor.

            HP software is abysmal. The hardware is just as bad. That's a sign of a poor product and bad company. The Compaq line didn't die for no reason.

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            • #51
              Out of interest why should we even care about people switching to Linux? Market volume forHardware drivers, ok fair one, its important to be able to have. Other than that whats to gain? Even if Linux was to get more market share than Mac people would still write in .NET and DirectX etc. On the flip side the community is also diluted with people who dont care about freedom, community or any of the principles, have no interest in learning to help themselves, and just want people to help them.

              Largly playing devils advocate here but i personally think that we're where we should be at the moment, and i really couldnt care if another linspire rip off was able to kill off Microsoft

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              • #52
                case:

                This girl L33F3R is fucking, switched to linux (ubuntu) last year because she got fed up with windows. She aint the brightest cookie in the jar tbh. She loves it. The only thing shes disappointed in is not being able to properly play java games on Facebook. Problem is that shes using the supplied proprietary drivers and not the free ones for her older ATI card. She doesnt know how to change it and shes not worth my time.


                But hey, if this cokehead can discover linux all on her own, i extremely doubt there is much of a problem with acknowledgment of the existence of linux.

                I do notice several misconceptions about linux. A buddy of mine, former web designer, tried to tell me what linux was. Apparently linux is an operating system, just like windows, and can get all the same viruses. its not any more secure and its slower, According to him (he had no idea iv been using it half my life).

                So i think education is at large, missing.

                Food for thought.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Panix View Post
                  You're wrong. It is a barometer. Maybe not the best. But, when a product is flawed, there will be issues and then people who don't take it back or give up, will visit forums because that's their only avenue.
                  It is not even close to being a good barometer. HP is by far the best selling printing product out there. It has been since the days dating back to the Deskjet 500 and 500c. The most popular product will almost with 100% certainty have the most users griping about issues with their product. With HP solutions I can say after setting up dozens of various models that their linux support is pretty good. Still not to the level of Epson but having a troublesome HP setup in linux is more of an exception to the rule rather then it being the rule of thumb.

                  So, when the Broadcom 'problem' which was mentioned here was brought up, it was a very popular topic on forums. Every Linux forum would have threads on Broadcom wifi cards.
                  If I were to compare printing products that had the same level of support as broadcom it would have to be Canon inkjet products.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    It is not even close to being a good barometer. HP is by far the best selling printing product out there. It has been since the days dating back to the Deskjet 500 and 500c. The most popular product will almost with 100% certainty have the most users griping about issues with their product. With HP solutions I can say after setting up dozens of various models that their linux support is pretty good. Still not to the level of Epson but having a troublesome HP setup in linux is more of an exception to the rule rather then it being the rule of thumb.
                    I'm thinking he's been bitten by the exceptions and thinks it's the norm, deanjo...

                    If I were to compare printing products that had the same level of support as broadcom it would have to be Canon inkjet products.
                    Heh... The first solid Canon product I've seen is the one in current use at my current location at the customer site. Most of the rest of the stuff's been kinda hit-or-miss...about like Broadcom has been, even on Windows...

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                    • #55
                      Redhat was hardly known, boomed and fell down. Fedora? The same. Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu...

                      it is only a matter of time until people are fed up with the hype and look for the next latest and greatest. Maybe Pclinuxos

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                        I'm thinking he's been bitten by the exceptions and thinks it's the norm, deanjo...
                        I don't get why he keeps buying HP printers if he hates them so much. I always investigate if a printer has good linux support before buying it, and so far this has been a successful approach with two Samsung and Brother printers working flawlessly.

                        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                        Heh... The first solid Canon product I've seen is the one in current use at my current location at the customer site. Most of the rest of the stuff's been kinda hit-or-miss...
                        That's my experience as well (since it seems experience is the only thing that counts). Had a cheap Canon printer that worked in linux, although some configuration options were not available, but it died after 2 years of usage.

                        BTW, on the plus side it seems that "crap" is also becoming less popular

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                        • #57
                          i had used it for one year, easy to use but the desktop platform is ugly.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by devius View Post
                            I don't get why he keeps buying HP printers if he hates them so much. I always investigate if a printer has good linux support before buying it, and so far this has been a successful approach with two Samsung and Brother printers working flawlessly.
                            With the other printers I've got being Epsons...can't complain, really (My best printers are the 1218 and the two Epsons, one MF model...). Printer support's getting better on many of the problem models and more and more aren't "problem child" devices.

                            As it stands, I don't get why he says they don't work. And I'm with you, I don't get if he's had issues, why he's not moved on to other gear as budget permitted- or why he didn't do a bit of research before buying, unless he had them before his move to Linux.

                            Perhaps it's a specific multi-function or feature set thereof he's insisting on using.. Most of the MF lineup use PCL for the printer command set (That's been solidly defined and implemented...) and the scanners tend to be standard USB HP scanners. It's when you try using the "advanced" features like WiFi support that you get "doesn't work well" out of them- but then they have...issues...when you're driving that stuff with Windows to begin with as they've implemented the most minimal print/wireless-USB server on the printer with that stuff.

                            That's my experience as well (since it seems experience is the only thing that counts). Had a cheap Canon printer that worked in linux, although some configuration options were not available, but it died after 2 years of usage.
                            Yeah, it's the story with the Canon I'm using off and on. I will say I prefer the Epson or HP over it- but it's been reasonably trouble-free. Now, the OTHER Canon I've got that was just given to me? Paperweight. As was the previous three before it.

                            BTW, on the plus side it seems that "crap" is also becoming less popular
                            The "crap" stuff was typically cheap- something they shaved pennies to dimes off their BoM to get their margins up, only to cause other problems down the line. I see the stuff crop up from time to time- but most people have gotten to figuring out which is the crapshoot and which is the stuff you want. And, it's not always brand-name or expensive stuff either.

                            Occasionally, I'll buy a paperweight or be given one. It would be the same story if I were using Windows. It's just not any easier in that world...just different if you're not buying an OEM pre-installed machine from someone. And if you upgrade...you're just as on your own as you'd be if you were using Linux.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Dennisial View Post
                              i had used it for one year, easy to use but the desktop platform is ugly.
                              Used WHAT? Linux? Heh...which distribution, and when? If you can't answer that...you're not being honest with us there.

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                              • #60
                                no thats not happen really....old is gold people still learn Linux and giving training on it.

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