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  • X.Org Server Commit Activity Continues Declining

    Phoronix: X.Org Server Commit Activity Continues Declining

    After looking earlier today at development statistics for Wayland's Weston, here's a fresh look at the work going into the X.Org Server...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY5NDE

  • #2
    Makes sense. The server is, for the most part, stable. Some features are missing to ease the transition to Wayland, but I guess most developers are comfortable with the idea of Wayland taking over eventually, so development on X should be slowing down.

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    • #3
      Work naturally fades as one reaches perfection.

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      • #4
        perfection?

        Originally posted by johnc View Post
        Work naturally fades as one reaches perfection.
        perfection lololol hahaha

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pseus View Post
          Makes sense. The server is, for the most part, stable. Some features are missing to ease the transition to Wayland, but I guess most developers are comfortable with the idea of Wayland taking over eventually, so development on X should be slowing down.
          X isn't going away anytime soon. Maybe in 20 years it might become deprecated.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
            X isn't going away anytime soon. Maybe in 20 years it might become deprecated.
            Nah Wayland will take over completely in a couple years. More and more DE's are converting or planning on converting. Cant stop progress.
            X is a mess for Linux and future technologies. The faster it is gone the better.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by grndzro View Post
              Nah Wayland will take over completely in a couple years. More and more DE's are converting or planning on converting. Cant stop progress.
              X is a mess for Linux and future technologies. The faster it is gone the better.
              X11 was invented neither for nor is it contained within Linux. Don't be foolish, educate yourself and you will see that Unix != Linux.
              I'll say it again: Xorg will last more than a decade. There's too many (non Linux) systems where Wayland just doesn't make sense.

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              • #8
                I'm actually curious where you think x-org makes more sense.

                The only reason I could see someone using xorg is if wayland doesn't support their system yet. I even remember reading that someone was working on porting it to BSD.

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                • #9
                  Of if Wayland doesn't support their favorite DE, or they have a non-accel system

                  Originally posted by ua=42 View Post
                  I'm actually curious where you think x-org makes more sense.

                  The only reason I could see someone using xorg is if wayland doesn't support their system yet. I even remember reading that someone was working on porting it to BSD.
                  I won't be switching to Wayland until Cinnamon does or someone ports all its functionality, including a real system tray adn the option of a single all-in one taskbar on the bottom back to a gnome-shell extension that does not constantly get broken. My Atom netbook might never be converted if video playback or battery consumption in Wayland are worse than on noncompositing IceWM over X. That machine has memory bandwidth issues and does not like compositing and video at the same time in terms of performance. Using a "stripped" DE in that kind of machine can mean being able to play 720p video while a full DE with a heavy compositor and circa 2012 Pulseaudio will be almost fully loaded at 360p. If Wayland can defeat a noncompositing X server for raw video performance and battery life the netbook will need it, and I look forward to trying it there. I doubt my big desktops would show much difference from any amount of lightening the DE and video server given tbeir power, but I would love to see this on Cinnamon some day.

                  Those doing things with old AGP boards (and especially Pentium 3 or older procs) might never be able to use Wayland, given that you can forget software rendering an openGL desktop on most of those machines except just to show that it works. You CAN run compiz on many of those, hell I ran it with good results on an Athlkon 500mhz retrofitted with a Geforce 5000 series card back in 2008, that thing could play VGA video with the then common mpeg-4 codec as long as nothing else was running. It could not play streaming video in the browser, but I've seen even an Athlon 64 with an ATI Radeon HD4350 bog down in Liveleak's jwplayer, which is almost twice as heavy as Youtube's arrangement but not served up with a side order of "content ID."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johnc View Post
                    Work naturally fades as one asymptotically reaches perfection.
                    There, fixed it for you...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
                      X11 was invented neither for nor is it contained within Linux. Don't be foolish, educate yourself and you will see that Unix != Linux.
                      I'll say it again: Xorg will last more than a decade. There's too many (non Linux) systems where Wayland just doesn't make sense.
                      I think you missed some info while educating yourself about X and Wayland. Wayland is X without the 80s legacy baggage. You can call it X12 if you want, the difference between X is that the name Wayland gives the devs a clean slate and no interference from past organizations that were involved in the development of the X protocol. Besides, Wayland was created and written by X developers. The compositor represents the issue in porting Wayland to a platform, not the protocol itself.

                      Xorg is not going anywhere soon, that is true. The organization will foster the development of wayland. It definitely won't go away anytime soon! But if being specific about the X11 protocol, that's why XWayland is being created in the first place, to address the issue with incompatible software.

                      Unix != Linux, I agree but remember that neither was Unix built for the x86 architecture in the first place.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Luke View Post
                        I won't be switching to Wayland until Cinnamon does or someone ports all its functionality, including a real system tray adn the option of a single all-in one taskbar on the bottom back to a gnome-shell extension that does not constantly get broken. My Atom netbook might never be converted if video playback or battery consumption in Wayland are worse than on noncompositing IceWM over X. That machine has memory bandwidth issues and does not like compositing and video at the same time in terms of performance. Using a "stripped" DE in that kind of machine can mean being able to play 720p video while a full DE with a heavy compositor and circa 2012 Pulseaudio will be almost fully loaded at 360p. If Wayland can defeat a noncompositing X server for raw video performance and battery life the netbook will need it, and I look forward to trying it there. I doubt my big desktops would show much difference from any amount of lightening the DE and video server given tbeir power, but I would love to see this on Cinnamon some day.

                        Those doing things with old AGP boards (and especially Pentium 3 or older procs) might never be able to use Wayland, given that you can forget software rendering an openGL desktop on most of those machines except just to show that it works. You CAN run compiz on many of those, hell I ran it with good results on an Athlkon 500mhz retrofitted with a Geforce 5000 series card back in 2008, that thing could play VGA video with the then common mpeg-4 codec as long as nothing else was running. It could not play streaming video in the browser, but I've seen even an Athlon 64 with an ATI Radeon HD4350 bog down in Liveleak's jwplayer, which is almost twice as heavy as Youtube's arrangement but not served up with a side order of "content ID."
                        don't you realize you're speaking two complete opposites? on one side you speak low memory/power consumption, on the other you talk about cinnamon which is built on top of gnome-shell framework which automatically converts it into hog. cinnamon is just as bad as gnome-shell in power/memory

                        also, wayland is not about power. wayland is about fixing non-fixable bugs in x11. not to mention, there is no need to code extensions to extensions just to hack something really simple since no one knows how everything works. but, most of the problem derives in fact you have x11 infrastructure which does, guess what... "nothing". you have your DE, compositor and x11, where only thing that compositor and DE communicate with x11 is begging it to change nothing and let them do their work

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                          ...
                          X is a mess for Linux ...
                          Why only for Linux?
                          X is a mess for all Operating Systems using it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                            Nah Wayland will take over completely in a couple years. More and more DE's are converting or planning on converting. Cant stop progress.
                            X is a mess for Linux and future technologies. The faster it is gone the better.
                            I'd rather wait and see if it is better than X11 in actual use. Some aspects of the design -- client-side decorations, for example -- lead me to believe that it actually might be worse than X11.

                            And the big question for me is: did they do anything to prevent focus stealing, or does it rely on well-behaved apps as X11 does?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bison View Post
                              I'd rather wait and see if it is better than X11 in actual use. Some aspects of the design -- client-side decorations, for example -- lead me to believe that it actually might be worse than X11.

                              And the big question for me is: did they do anything to prevent focus stealing, or does it rely on well-behaved apps as X11 does?
                              Wayland doesn't require client side decorations, simply put the current compositors do.
                              And an app can't steal the focus, it is the job of the compositor to give it to which app it wants to.

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